Ebay tool buy.

[Neverenoughwatches]

Does anyone know if this is any kind of watch repair tool ?

[RichardHarris123]

No idea. Hehe. 

[Paul80]

What was it listed as, what made you buy it without knowing what it's for ?

Maybe some sort of clamp or vice grip 

[Plato]

It looks like a bracelet pin tool modified for something else.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/pin-removing-pliers-bergeon

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, Paul80 said:

What was it listed as, what made you buy it without knowing what it's for ?

Maybe some sort of clamp or vice grip 

It was part of a job lot, the other things i knew what they were and wanted.

1 hour ago, Plato said:

It looks like a bracelet pin tool modified for something else.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/pin-removing-pliers-bergeon

 

How about now . The end reminds me of a part of a balance staff removal. The lever opens up the jaws to insert. 

11 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

It was part of a job lot, the other things i knew what they were and wanted.

How about now . The end reminds me of a part of a balance staff removal. The lever opens up the jaws to insert. 

Balance staff and wheel clamp ?

[nickelsilver]

It's for offset canon pinions. I have a couple, neither ever fit one, ground one out to fit Heuer 11 and 12 caliber chronos, use it frequently. I guess they always figured on them being modified?

[Neverenoughwatches]

20 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

It's for offset canon pinions. I have a couple, neither ever fit one, ground one out to fit Heuer 11 and 12 caliber chronos, use it frequently. I guess they always figured on them being modified?

To be used on the movement itself to remove the cannon pinion ? I was thinking the tip looked like somekind of roller remover. Thanks Nicklesilver 

[RichardHarris123]

What's an offset cannon pinion? 

[Neverenoughwatches]

21 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

What's an offset cannon pinion? 

[Paul80]

Silly Billy, it's a Cannon Pinion that offset 

[HectorLooi]

9 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

What's an offset cannon pinion? 

The opposite of an onset cannon pinion.

9 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

What's an offset cannon pinion? 

But seriously, it's a friction wheel that is not mounted on the centre wheel.

[Neverenoughwatches]

10 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

What's an offset cannon pinion? 

God Rich , you could at least ask a relavent question.  So yeah Nickelsilver what the hell is an offset cannon pinion ?

2 hours ago, Paul80 said:

Silly Billy, it's a Cannon Pinion that offset 

1 hour ago, HectorLooi said:

The opposite of an onset cannon pinion.

But seriously, it's a friction wheel that is not mounted on the centre wheel.

Yes Richard its what HectorLooi said, dont you know anything about watches

1 hour ago, HectorLooi said:

The opposite of an onset cannon pinion.

But seriously, it's a friction wheel that is not mounted on the centre wheel.

Thought it was , yes Richard me and HectorLooi know exactly what it is dont you know anything about watches. So Hector this offset cannon pinion that is a friction wheel what does it actually do ?

[nickelsilver]

An offset canon pinion is not in the center of the watch, and doesn't carry a hand. It's seen in a number of mid 20th century calibers where the first wheel after the barrel isn't centered. Later designs like most familiar modern ETA calibers deal with the friction needed for hand setting by driving the cannon pinion through an attached wheel which is driven by the rigid offset 3rd pinion.

 

In the pic the upper pinion is the offset cannon pinion. They are by necessity shorter than regular cannon pinions, and since they are attached directly to the center wheel with no bridge in between can't be pulled with a normal cannon pinion puller. The tool in the first post slides in between the upper cannon pinion and lower fixed pinion, and spreads, thus removing the small cannon pinion without harm.

 

If you don't have the tool, you can often work them off by gripping them with brass or nickel tweezers and turning while pulling, or sometimes you can grip the arbor area between the two pinions with a pair of steel tweezers and slide them along the arbor (while turning the wheel), the wedge effect will pop off the cannon pinion. If you have a bench block with a V cut and that is open and thin enough on the underside you can get the assembly in it so the cannon pinion is sticking up, sitting on the V, and press down the pivot with brass tweezers. Or- a Platax tool can work well here (about the only good use for that tool in my opinion). But except for the latter technique there's always a risk of damaging the center wheel. The tool really makes it easy.

 

 

Edited May 31, 2022 by nickelsilver

[ifibrin]

2 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

Or- a Platax tool can work well here (about the only good use for that tool in my opinion). But except for the latter technique there's always a risk of damaging the center wheel. The tool really makes it easy.

If you don’t approve of the platax tool for removing a balance staff, does that mean that a staking set is also out of the question? So only a lathe to cut out the hub in the balance wheel?

[nickelsilver]

30 minutes ago, ifibrin said:

If you don’t approve of the platax tool for removing a balance staff, does that mean that a staking set is also out of the question? So only a lathe to cut out the hub in the balance wheel?

That's my personal view, either the lathe to cut the hub or the Molfres tool, which grinds away the hub (I haven't used that one but they did have it in the Swiss school I went to). I know many professional watchmakers swear up and down that they have no problem with the Platax or the similar tool used in a staking too, but I just don't feel right pushing an enlarged rivet through the balance.

 

 

[praezis]

As usual, a perfect explanation by Nickelsilver!
But the tool is older than offset canon pinions and aimed to a very similar, but slightly different task:

Center wheels and its canon pinion came as adapted assembled units. But for mounting, they had to be separated, and this is, what the tool was initially made for. No other tool will really help, esp. with bored pinions of center seconds or chronographs.

Frank

 

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

6 hours ago, praezis said:

As usual, a perfect explanation by Nickelsilver!
But the tool is older than offset canon pinions and aimed to a very similar, but slightly different task:

Center wheels and its canon pinion came as adapted assembled units. But for mounting, they had to be separated, and this is, what the tool was initially made for. No other tool will really help, esp. with bored pinions of center seconds or chronographs.

Frank

 

 

Thank praezis. I almost overlooked it in the box of tools, then noticed it while sorting through. It looked well made and to have a particular use. I wonder if i will ever use it. 

[RichardHarris123]

1 minute ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Thank praezis. I almost overlooked it in the box of tools, then noticed it while sorting through. It looked well made and to have a particular use. I wonder if i will ever use it. 

Buy a watch with an offset pinion just to use it. Hehe. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Buy a watch with an offset pinion just to use it. Hehe. 

If i spot one, know me i probably will.