Jump to content

Does this movement sound normal?


Recommended Posts

Hello, fixing a Hamilton 988 at the moment and I'm an absolute beginner. 

The watch wasn't running but I've managed to fix the hairspring and now the watch runs again. 

However, as much as I tried to regulate the time, the watch runs fast (about 5 min a day). I've maxed out of how much I can push the regulator. 

So, I was assuming it might be a magnetization issue.. but I've just noticed the ticking noise is a little odd. 

Does this ticking noise sound normal? Or would simply using a demagnetizer will do the trick?

Sharing a link since I cannot upload audio files here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AWbrWZ-GPQ6zJAOHep3vZE4UeBxXVQ8V/view?usp=sharing

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds galloping,   

Clean the hairspring and  demag.  

What happens when you move the beat adjustor arm?  

Intermitenet sticking is easy to miss by visual inspection,  you might need to take a    slo mo     vid of the coil  to see intermittent sticking.

Good luck

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, livefastdieold said:

Hello, fixing a Hamilton 988 at the moment and I'm an absolute beginner. 

The watch wasn't running but I've managed to fix the hairspring and now the watch runs again. 

However, as much as I tried to regulate the time, the watch runs fast (about 5 min a day). I've maxed out of how much I can push the regulator. 

So, I was assuming it might be a magnetization issue.. but I've just noticed the ticking noise is a little odd. 

Does this ticking noise sound normal? Or would simply using a demagnetizer will do the trick?

Sharing a link since I cannot upload audio files here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AWbrWZ-GPQ6zJAOHep3vZE4UeBxXVQ8V/view?usp=sharing

Hmm not sure . Sounds like its beating a little irregular. Generally if the watch is running fast it would be due to a dirty hs or a hs that has become magnetised making the coil stick together slightly when contracting and releasing. Try cleaning and a demagnetise first. Then watch the hs breathe in and out when its oscillating preferably under a scope if you have one , you should notice an issue visually. Check it for flat and trueness inside the watch while its running. It is possible the hs is too short, i have a couple of old ones that broke on me that i had to repin. They run approx five mins a day too fast with full slow regulation. So you may need to hunt for another hs if this is the case. Its possible to make adjustment to the balance wheel if there are adjustment screws, but i would suggest trying everything else and have this as a final resort. Ask for more advice here before you attempt this.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you were able to record the sound that well you might also be able to use a cheap timegrapher app to evaluate beat error and amplitude. The beat error sounds to be huge!

Edit: I just let my timegrapher app analyse your audio file. It says +540s/d and 12ms beat error! May be wrong but …

Edited by Kalanag
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Kalanag said:

If you were able to record the sound that well you might also be able to use a cheap timegrapher app to evaluate beat error and amplitude. The beat error sounds to be huge!

Edit: I just let my timegrapher app analyse your audio file. It says +540s/d and 12ms beat error! May be wrong but …

I played it to my timegrapher,  for the few seconds i got it to analyse it was all over the place as well.

7 hours ago, livefastdieold said:

Hello, fixing a Hamilton 988 at the moment and I'm an absolute beginner. 

The watch wasn't running but I've managed to fix the hairspring and now the watch runs again. 

However, as much as I tried to regulate the time, the watch runs fast (about 5 min a day). I've maxed out of how much I can push the regulator. 

So, I was assuming it might be a magnetization issue.. but I've just noticed the ticking noise is a little odd. 

Does this ticking noise sound normal? Or would simply using a demagnetizer will do the trick?

Sharing a link since I cannot upload audio files here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AWbrWZ-GPQ6zJAOHep3vZE4UeBxXVQ8V/view?usp=sharing

Post up some pictures of the balance running, we may apot something obvious happening 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, livefastdieold said:

Hamilton 988

Always nice if you give us a picture of the watch. Just in case we all didn't instantly recognize this as a ladies wristwatch? Or is it a pocket watch?

8 hours ago, livefastdieold said:

The watch wasn't running but I've managed to fix the hairspring and now the watch runs again. 

In addition the fixing they hairspring anything else you did to the watch? Are there any other observations like when was the last cleaned?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Kalanag said:

 

Edit: I just let my timegrapher app analyse your audio file. It says +540s/d and 12ms beat error! May be wrong but …

There you are , huge beat error, so move the beat adjustor arm to reduce the beat error, it may sound alright then, If no joy, its got more issue with hairspring or roller/ impulse. 

Kalanag, I am proud to extend special welcome to experienced/ knowlegable and helpful members like yourself.

Regds

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you so much everyone.

I just ordered a demagnetizer and a watch crystal lifter (I thought I fixed it so I installed a new crystal but it's not coming off by hand, whereas the previous crystal did since it was a little bit cracked).

Meanwhile I will download the Timegrapher app. I was hesitant downloading because of the bad reviews but maybe it will be useful for the time being.. 

I will keep this thread updated! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

There you are , huge beat error, so move the beat adjustor arm to reduce the beat error, it may sound alright then, If no joy, its got more issue with hairspring or roller/ impulse. 

Yes super easy fix except?

16 hours ago, livefastdieold said:

Hamilton 988

I don't suppose you can give us a picture for those of us who don't instantaneously recognize the type of movement based on that description you are giving us?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Updating this thread.

I tried demagnetizing but no luck. I'm assuming it has something to do with the hairspring. 

I took the hairspring out to straighten it out as much as I can, then put it back in.. but length of where I've locked the hairspring might have been too far from the escapement. I say this because it took a weird angle to fit the balance cock back in the watch in order to make it run again (180 degrees). Maybe it's using too much tension of the hairspring?

The watch still "gallops"  in every position for the regulation pointer. 

Please let me know if this makes any sense as I'm not too sure if I'm explaining the situation very well. 

A photo is attached below and this is a video of the movement as promised. Thank again for everything! 

P.S. Also noticed this is a cal.688 and not 988..

688_1.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, livefastdieold said:

Updating this thread.

I tried demagnetizing but no luck. I'm assuming it has something to do with the hairspring. 

I took the hairspring out to straighten it out as much as I can, then put it back in.. but length of where I've locked the hairspring might have been too far from the escapement. I say this because it took a weird angle to fit the balance cock back in the watch in order to make it run again (180 degrees). Maybe it's using too much tension of the hairspring?

The watch still "gallops"  in every position for the regulation pointer. 

Please let me know if this makes any sense as I'm not too sure if I'm explaining the situation very well. 

A photo is attached below and this is a video of the movement as promised. Thank again for everything! 

P.S. Also noticed this is a cal.688 and not 988..

688_1.jpg

Hi matey. You really need to have it giving out some running feedback on a timegrapher or an app at least. Then you can make some timing and beat adjustments. It is possible to check and set the watch for correct beat resonably accurately without a timegrapher. Its not difficult to adjust its beat by eye if you have some experience. Have you moved the beat adjuster by accident do you know ?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, livefastdieold said:

The watch still "gallops"  in every position for the regulation pointer.

we got a get our terminology right otherwise it leads to confusion does the watch sound like it's galloping? Does it only sound like that one is wound up tight after its run for a few hours is still making the galloping noise?

Then under the balance wheel I see some numbers it be nice to get a picture of those. This is a modern Hamilton in other words it's not really a Hamilton it's just a name Hamilton on the watch it's really a Swiss watch. The numbers under the balance rim might tell us what it is.

2 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

You really need to have it giving out some running feedback on a timegrapher or an app at least.

no no no we can't have that that means I would have to retire my crystal ball. You would have to quit staring at tea leaves or whatever you used to deduce whatever the problem is having a timing machine or an app providing the app actually worked would just make things too simple for all of us that just isn't acceptable at all.

4 hours ago, livefastdieold said:

I took the hairspring out to straighten it out as much as I can, then put it back in.. but length of where I've locked the hairspring might have been too far from the escapement. I say this because it took a weird angle to fit the balance cock back in the watch in order to make it run again (180 degrees). Maybe it's using too much tension of the hairspring?

terminology problem I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here?

On 5/28/2022 at 7:53 PM, livefastdieold said:

I'm an absolute beginner.

there certain problems with learning watch repair. First despite what you might've heard cleaning doesn't fix everything. Seconds knowledge is required. The problem with lacking knowledge is diagnosing problems requires knowledge of how the watch works all of the watch and if you have no experience with watches that means your diagnostic skills are going to suck. Then acting on your diagnostic skills which need perfecting usually will lead us down a path of well not necessarily the best path to be going down

this is where initially when you're only running fast the timing machine or app providing it actually works a lot of them don't would've been really helpful. Now we have the initial problem and whatever you've done to try to fix the problem in which case I don't quite understand what you meant in the paragraph above that I quoted which I don't quite understand?

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

no no no we can't have that that means I would have to retire my crystal ball. You would have to quit staring at tea leaves or whatever you used to deduce whatever the problem is having a timing machine or an app providing the app actually worked would just make things too simple for all of us that just isn't acceptable at all.

Lol John. You do make me laugh😂

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, livefastdieold said:

Updating this thread.

I tried demagnetizing but no luck. I'm assuming it has something to do with the hairspring. 

I took the hairspring out to straighten it out as much as I can, then put it back in.. but length of where I've locked the hairspring might have been too far from the escapement. I say this because it took a weird angle to fit the balance cock back in the watch in order to make it run again (180 degrees). Maybe it's using too much tension of the hairspring?

The watch still "gallops"  in every position for the regulation pointer. 

Please let me know if this makes any sense as I'm not too sure if I'm explaining the situation very well. 

A photo is attached below and this is a video of the movement as promised. Thank again for everything! 

P.S. Also noticed this is a cal.68

The photo clearly shows that:

(1) the stud carrier arm is in the most extended and likely wrong position

(2) the hairspring is heavily bent and cann‘t work correctly anymore

7772B72F-B7F4-4E6D-9059-478AD3DC7C3E.thumb.jpeg.032b86c2c4d1304cdb964d2de5b06812.jpeg

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Kalanag said:

The photo clearly shows that:

(1) the stud carrier arm is in the most extended and likely wrong position

(2) the hairspring is heavily bent and cann‘t work correctly anymore

7772B72F-B7F4-4E6D-9059-478AD3DC7C3E.thumb.jpeg.032b86c2c4d1304cdb964d2de5b06812.jpeg

After adjusting the stud carrier arm, the watch sounds and runs normally. I found a new hairspring for this movement on eBay that I'll purchase, but meanwhile I'll leave it for a day to see how accurate it runs as I don't have a timegrapher. 

18 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Does it only sound like that one is wound up tight after its run for a few hours is still making the galloping noise?

Hi John, I've attached the sound of the watch on top this thread. I'll attach the link here again as you may have missed it: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AWbrWZ-GPQ6zJAOHep3vZE4UeBxXVQ8V/view?usp=sharing

The term "galloping" was used by another member here that made sense because it did sound like it was "galloping". Sorry I don't know the profession terminology for this as I'm a complete beginner, but I'm trying my best. 

15 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Did you remove the hairspring in order to sort it out?   

 

I did and it seems to help! Although it was really hard to get it completely straight, at least the watch seems like running normally now. I have a feeling I might need a new hairspring though. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, livefastdieold said:

I found a new hairspring for this movement on eBay that I'll purchase,

hopefully that hairspring is on a balance wheel? Then you replacing the balance wheel with that hairspring. Typically on modern watches hairsprings do not interchange with other balance wheels because of major timing issues. Which is why typically if you need a hairspring it's a balance complete not a separate hairspring.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Kalanag said:

The photo clearly shows that:

(1) the stud carrier arm is in the most extended and likely wrong position

(2) the hairspring is heavily bent and cann‘t work correctly anymore

7772B72F-B7F4-4E6D-9059-478AD3DC7C3E.thumb.jpeg.032b86c2c4d1304cdb964d2de5b06812.jpeg

is there a start to the end curve ?     outer coils look to be touching , hairspring does look a bit beat up

bent spring.jpeg

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

Typically on modern watches hairsprings do not interchange with other balance wheels because of major timing issues.

can another hairspring be made to work on the balance wheel ?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, livefastdieold said:

I did and it seems to help! Although it was really hard to get it completely straight, at least the watch seems like running normally now. I have a feeling I might need a new hairspring though. 

So the oscilator might be out of beat. Heres a vid by Mark on the subject.

  Your oscilator might also be out of beat if stud position has changed as the result of sorting out  the hairpsring coil.

Just now, Nucejoe said:

So the oscilator might be out of beat. Heres a vid by Mark on the subject.

  Your oscilator might also be out of beat if stud position has changed as the result of sorting out  the hairpsring coil.

Replacing hairspring is not an easy option, as pairing a spring with a balance requires special tools and a bit of skil.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • I see what you mean. I must admit I’m not entirely comfortable with that but I can’t see a better method than what you suggest. I’d like to see something like this mirror with a short spike: https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/mirror-for-observing-movements Place it on, push the spike on the post with one hand and release the stem with the other hand. Minor problem, it doesn’t exist.
    • Hope you mum keeps on mending. I was adamant that I was going to get myself going after my stroke. I was only 52. I still have a lot of life left to live. Some people give up. Some people don't let it beat them. Your mum sounds like one of the winners. 👍
    • Moved in. Now working out the best place to have things so moving around the room makes sense. The wooden movement testing rig may end up being suspended from the roof with some pulleys and ropes that I salvaged from some alfresco blinds that we replaced. I always seem to salvage things from things we scrap thinking, "I have an idea what I can use these for." I hope I'm not the only one that does that. My wife hates me for it. "What are you going to do with all this crap?" Anyway, here you go. If anyone has suggestions for workflow around a room, speak up. All Ideas are appreciated. The bench on wheels will carry either a laptop or my Samsung table for using with the little camera that is on the tripod for photos while dismantling etc. The small bar fridge in the corners going to have water etc in it and I might move the coffee maker from the kitchen out there as I am the only one that uses it. I want to get an ultrasonic cleaner so I may set up some sort of cleaning rig in front of the glass of the sliding door. Where the grandmother clock is currently standing. I'm hoping that I will be able to transition my working area, which is the table that the stool is sitting in front of, fairly easily between clocks and watches. I'll be doing my best to make sure that tools for each are separatedwhen stored. Logistics. I'll have a bit of wall space for being able to hang clocks if I find some that I wish to keep or hopefully at some time to be able to hang customer clocks for monitoring after servicing/repairs. The clock on the left in the blue pillow slip and the grandmother clock are earmarked for  Jarryd and his wife, Sara. He helped me move the benches in today. And then went on to tell me that ticking clocks drive him nuts. Who doesn't like the rhythmic ticking of a clock? I have a green pad for adding to the bench for a working surface. It is not a cutting mat or one of the Bergeon mats. It is actually a green desk writing mat. Was really cheap and will do exactly what I want, I think. I also have to get the sparkies back that put our new stove in to put some power points on the walls behind the benches. Hopefully this is all going to go well. I'm excited about it. It'll beat having to live out in the garage doing it. The other thing I have to do is cut a circle or square of plastic to go over the bouncing watch or clock part black hole in the middle of the floor. I would pretty much guarantee that anything that sproings off the bench would end up going straight down that drain. 😄      I think I have been on this forum about 4 years and still yet to really strike a blow. That's a bit sad isn't it. Signed up to Mark's watch course and have yet to buy the movement for working on. Have most of the tools I think I will need so now all just a matter of will.   I have to make a crank handle for my Joe Collins spring winder as well and some spring retaining tubes as I can't find where I can buy them. I will be salvaging (here I go again) the aluminium tubing from my old hang glider which I have to scrap as I can't fly anymore and it is too old to sell. All the aluminium tubing is aircraft grade so I am hoping it will be suitable for the winder. I have also been making a bushing tool and I have just worked out that it will work well with my Dremel stand. So another thing that I can turn into a working tool. Don't know if you guys have ever seen the ad about the guy that buys himself a new 4WD and the son says "We're going to need a bigger boat." So Liz is looking at all the stuff we have to get rid of and says "We're going to need a bigger bin." Really difficult to work out how big a Dempster bin we need. Sigh.
    • So leave off the seconds. Stand the movement on its edge, its the dial edge that rests on the pad ( either rubber or cork , something that wont slip ). Use a finger of your left hand to hold the movement upright,  right hand presses the release and flicks out the stem. I do it this way so i can see what I'm under a microscope. But you could hold the movement between two fingers of your left hand, its the right that has to manipulate the stem out by pushing the release and flicking out the stem with  right ring finger nail. Sounds more complicated than it actually is. I guess you could fix a push pin to something solid, then all you need to do is push the release against the pin, leaving your right hand completely free to pull the stem out.
    • Try putting everything back together and closing the back cover. I think one of the two springs has to contact the metal casing to ground the casing. So when you press the button, it will touch the contact on circuit board and close the circuit.
×
×
  • Create New...