Cyma watch help

[Baba]

Hello

My name is Bob, thank you for allowing me to be part of this forum. I’m very passionate about watches, specially the vintage  watches.

I have a Cyma watch and honestly I don’t know much about this brand/watch.

I would like to ask for your help and professional option about this watch. I will try to describe the best I can. In the movement I see the letters REF next to numbers 570; I assume that 570 will be the caliber of the movement. I don’t know if the case ,dial, hands or the crown are original to this watch or not. 

I believe the dial is genuine/ originals so I don’t think that the dial was repainted but I may be wrong of course. The numbers are glossy and they look like a very thick paint. It has the Swiss on the bottom and it looks like same color tone paint as the rest of the numbers and the CYMA logo. 

 

On the back of the case is the number 3 stamped along with a star witch has the number 4 or letter A , hard to tell. The case size is about 38mm without the crown included.

 

Any advice on dial , crown, hands or case will be appreciated.

Thank you.

[grsnovi]

Hi Bob, welcome to the forum. I'm pretty new at this and don't know anything about Cyma as a brand.

This web site is useful for looking up watch info. It shows the following for a Cyma 570:

Wikipedia says they've been around since 1862.

Edited May 12, 2022 by grsnovi
added link to wikipedia

[Nucejoe]

This is an in-housel Cyma , jeweled pallets and overcoil, so dial would be original if both feet are in tact as they both have fitted the mainplate. Original crowns had embossed star cyma logo.

Its a quality watch. I don't beleive its worth having it restored or do you personally do the restoration but check market prices to be sure. 

Welcome to WRT forum and good luck pal. 

 

[Klassiker]

Hello Bob, and welcome to the forum! @LittleWatchShop will be especially pleased to meet you!

[Baba]

5 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

This is an in-housel Cyma , jeweled pallets and overcoil, so dial would be original if both feet are in tact as they both have fitted the mainplate. Original crowns had embossed star cyma logo.

Its a quality watch. I don't beleive its worth having it restored or do you personally do the restoration but check market prices to be sure. 

Welcome to WRT forum and good luck pal. 

 

The crown doesn’t have any  Cyma logo on it. Like others famous watch brands Omega , Longines they don’t have all the time the crowns of their watches marked with the logo. That doesn’t necessarily mean they are not genuine. Here is a close up with the crown. 

6 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

This is an in-housel Cyma , jeweled pallets and overcoil, so dial would be original if both feet are in tact as they both have fitted the mainplate. Original crowns had embossed star cyma logo.

Its a quality watch. I don't beleive its worth having it restored or do you personally do the restoration but check market prices to be sure. 

Welcome to WRT forum and good luck pal. 

 

Thank you. I’m not sure what do you mean by” I don't beleive its worth having it restored“? Do you refer at dial to have it restored? If so, I believe the dial is original and definitely is not worth to be restored/ repainted. 
 

47 minutes ago, Baba said:

The crown doesn’t have any  Cyma logo on it. Like others famous watch brands Omega , Longines they don’t have all the time the crowns of their watches marked with the logo. That doesn’t necessarily mean they are not genuine. Here is a close up with the crown. 

Thank you. I’m not sure what do you mean by” I don't beleive its worth having it restored“? Do you refer at dial to have it restored? If so, I believe the dial is original and definitely is not worth to be restored/ repainted. 
 

Here is another image with the dial.

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, Baba said:

The crown doesn’t have any  Cyma logo on it. Like others famous watch brands Omega , Longines they don’t have all the time the crowns of their watches marked with the logo. That doesn’t necessarily mean they are not genuine. Here is a close up with the crown. 

Thank you. I’m not sure what do you mean by” I don't beleive its worth having it restored“? Do you refer at dial to have it restored? If so, I believe the dial is original and definitely is not worth to be restored/ repainted. 
 

Here is another image with the dial.

Whoa. Dont restore the dial matey.  Its a bit battered but beautiful and nice patina. A light clean if anything, a good clean would almost certainly start removing the print in the hands of anyone inexperienced.  Imo.  a redial would take away its history and probably  cost you more than the watch is worth. Unless its a dirty dozen which it kinda looks like. In  which case it could have a lot more value, so have a long hard think about a redial. A dirty dozen would have an upward pointing arrow indicating military issue, not sure about the spring bars though, normally be solid wire to enhance its robustness, dont quote me on that though im not an expect just a fairly avid collector. The big crown also an enhancement looks far to new . to facilitate winding on the battlefield. Im leaning heavily  towards an attempt to make it look like a Dirty dozen, im kinda thinking it has missing features, but again im no expert. But its nice looking  even in its attempted state and would love to have it in my collection regardless of what it is or isn’t.  So if its not DD then probably dont bother having it restored unless you really like it or are sentimentally attached or can do it yourself. If it is DD which im sort of doubting but if it is then a good one at a complete guessing ballpark £700ish . Other DDs and there are 11 off them obviously, Omega probably being the most noteworthy. Ill let you google the rest if thats ok as this reply is starting to drag on. Ive seen priced at around a grandish. This isnt a great example but its ok. And to finish off if you dont really like it I'll privately post you my phone number lol .

[RichardHarris123]

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Whoa. Dont restore the dial matey.  Its a bit battered but beautiful and nice patina. A light clean if anything, a good clean would almost certainly start removing the print in the hands of anyone inexperienced.  Imo.  a redial would take away its history and probably  cost you more than the watch is worth. Unless its a dirty dozen which it kinda looks like. In  which case it could have a lot more value, so have a long hard think about a redial. A dirty dozen would have an upward pointing arrow indicating military issue, not sure about the spring bars though, normally be solid wire to enhance its robustness, dont quote me on that though im not an expect just a fairly avid collector. The big crown also an enhancement looks far to new . to facilitate winding on the battlefield. Im leaning heavily  towards an attempt to make it look like a Dirty dozen, im kinda thinking it has missing features, but again im no expert. But its nice looking  even in its attempted state and would love to have it in my collection regardless of what it is or isn’t.  So if its not DD then probably dont bother having it restored unless you really like it or are sentimentally attached or can do it yourself. If it is DD which im sort of doubting but if it is then a good one at a complete guessing ballpark £700ish . Other DDs and there are 11 off them obviously, Omega probably being the most noteworthy. Ill let you google the rest if thats ok as this reply is starting to drag on. Ive seen priced at around a grandish. This isnt a great example but its ok. And to finish off if you dont really like it I'll privately post you my phone number lol .

I believe the dirty dozen all had black dials with the upwards arrow on.

[Kalanag]

1 hour ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I believe the dirty dozen all had black dials with the upwards arrow on.

…and the case is different (beefier).

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I believe the dirty dozen all had black dials with the upwards arrow on.

You could be right there Rich. I have seen white or rather cream dials but they may have not been genuine.  Good call. Sort of makes sense as night ops would require complete camouflage.  Would be a real shit if a searchlight caught a glint of a light coloured dial

42 minutes ago, Kalanag said:

…and the case is different (beefier).

Thank kal, appreciate  that info.  I kind of thought someone had made an attempt to imitate with the whacking big crown it has. A later version of a pilot's watch then ? They had great big crowns so they could be wound up without taking gloves off. 

[spectre6000]

Not every military issued watch had the arrow. I have a military issued and battlefield damaged/repaired Cyma, and the dial is very similar. Case is very different though. Case back is completely wrecked due to someone in the past scratching off the D#.

Numbers are brass(?). Hands are not original.

[Neverenoughwatches]

6 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

Not every military issued watch had the arrow. I have a military issued and battlefield damaged/repaired Cyma, and the dial is very similar. Case is very different though. Case back is completely wrecked due to someone in the past scratching off the D#.

Numbers are brass(?). Hands are not original.

I like them. Would you say always wire lugs ?

[Baba]

1 hour ago, Kalanag said:

…and the case is different (beefier).

It is definitely not  a DD ; I will attach a image with an example of DD Cyma. Perhaps could be an early military watch if the dial is original. But how about the hands? They don’t feet the military style at all…they mostly have the radium style hands.

[Neverenoughwatches]

25 minutes ago, Baba said:

It is definitely not  a DD ; I will attach a image with an example of DD Cyma. Perhaps could be an early military watch if the dial is original. But how about the hands? They don’t feet the military style at all…they mostly have the radium style hands.

Really nice.  The syringe hands look more in keeping with the 40s. I would think any military pilot or field watch would have lume on the dial and hands. Yours doesnt have any. Case doesnt look anywhere near as robust as these. So  Its a cyma so half decent quality, it looks quite nice the fat crown gives it a bit of character. I have a navystar with a silly little piddly crown no good for my chunky pinkies.

[Baba]

I’m very interested to se if someone here can tell me if the dial is original or not? Same with the case . What do you guys think about the originality of the dial and case?

[Neverenoughwatches]

16 minutes ago, Baba said:

I’m very interested to se if someone here can tell me if the dial is original or not? Same with the case . What do you guys think about the originality of the dial and case?

I wish i could tell you. Tbh it wouldn't bother me too much. Its unlikely to be worth much either way.  I have a lovely cyma navystar , all genuine and completely unrestored in great condition for its age. It was 70 uk notes, take from that what you will. Its nice its ok, just wear it and enjoy it for what it is.

[Baba]

47 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I wish i could tell you. Tbh it wouldn't bother me too much. Its unlikely to be worth much either way.  I have a lovely cyma navystar , all genuine and completely unrestored in great condition for its age. It was 70 uk notes, take from that what you will. Its nice its ok, just wear it and enjoy it for what it is.

To me is very important to find out if the dial and the case are original. It is not really about how much it is worth. It seems that nobody can tell that for sure. Online information is extremely limited when it comes to Cyma watches. I was just hoping that perhaps someone here in this forum can clarify that for me.  Thank you anyway.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Baba

[RichardHarris123]

I can't tell you for sure either but I think they are both original.  To me it looks like a military style watch. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

12 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I can't tell you for sure either but I think they are both original.  To me it looks like a military style watch. 

Both?  I dont think its the black faced dials that he has Rich. I think he was just using the photos as a comparison against his.

43 minutes ago, Baba said:

To me is very important to find out if the dial and the case are original. It is not really about how much it is worth. It seems that nobody can tell that for sure. Online information is extremely limited when it comes to Cyma watches. I was just hoping that perhaps someone here in this forum can clarify that for me.  Thank you anyway.

Whoa. Hang on. Have we all missed something here or was that just me.  Its a pocket watch conversion isnt it ?

[Nucejoe]

40 minutes ago, Baba said:

To me is very important to find out if the dial and the case are original. It is not really about how much it is worth. It seems that nobody can tell that for sure. Online information is extremely limited when it comes to Cyma watches. I was just hoping that perhaps someone here in this forum can clarify that for me.  Thank you anyway.

The answer is there, its an in-house Cyma movement so any dial that fits it must have been made for this caliber. 

The back side of dial plate may reveal more as to the possibility of it being  an after market dial .

[Neverenoughwatches]

10 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Both?  I dont think its the black faced dials that he has Rich. I think he was just using the photos as a comparison against his.

Whoa. Hang on. Have we all missed something here or was that just me.  Its a pocket watch conversion isnt it ?

No sorry brainfart moment. Im not paying attention just had another look

7 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

The answer is there, its an in-house Cyma movement so any dial that fits it must have been made for this caliber. 

The back side of dial plate may reveal more as to the possibility of it being  an after market dial .

Why a hinged back ? During a transition from pocket to wrist ?  80 year old watch . 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[spectre6000]

Not all military issued watches were field or pilot's watches. I was told by the watchmaker that restored mine many years ago that it was an officer's watch. The scratched up back (it's REALLY messed up) was to get rid of the number etched into the back by the German gov't for tracking. The battlefield repair is a series of small tangs knocked into the periphery around the crystal by the tip of a knife or bayonet to hold the crystal in lacking access to a new crystal or proper tools or what have you. It was likely either picked off a corpse or traded for cigarettes or something in a POW camp. Eastern front based on having come to me from Ukraine.

If yours is military, the case back will tell you.

[Neverenoughwatches]

5 hours ago, spectre6000 said:

Not all military issued watches were field or pilot's watches. I was told by the watchmaker that restored mine many years ago that it was an officer's watch. The scratched up back (it's REALLY messed up) was to get rid of the number etched into the back by the German gov't for tracking. The battlefield repair is a series of small tangs knocked into the periphery around the crystal by the tip of a knife or bayonet to hold the crystal in lacking access to a new crystal or proper tools or what have you. It was likely either picked off a corpse or traded for cigarettes or something in a POW camp. Eastern front based on having come to me from Ukraine.

If yours is military, the case back will tell you.

Fascinating history spectre

[Baba]

4 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Fascinating history spectre

It is indeed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Baba

[Neverenoughwatches]

10 minutes ago, Baba said:

I believe I have solved the mystery  here. Finally got the watch in my hands to take a closer look.

The watch movement along with case and hands were heavily modified. Hands are not original to this watch, they been modified. The hands holes were enlarged so they can feet this caliber. Case also was modified and is not original to this watch. The original lugs were cut and replaced with a larger ones.The numbers on dial, they don’t have the radium lumens like all military watches have, they have black paint. The dial seems to be original but far away to by military. Also I believe the case was borrowed from another watch , perhaps Venus. Looking at the star stamp and I’m comparing with the logo of the Venus watch. They look very similar to my eyes.  Not to mention the balance wheel does not have the Breguet hairsping. According to my research the caliber 570 supposed to have Breguet hairspring and not flat like this one.  At least this is my conclusion with this watch.

So had wire lugs that makes sense. I have a venus at home to repair so i will check that. Zenith also has a star. Great find matey. Remind me never to ask you to help me buy a watch.

[Baba]

I believe I have solved the mystery  here. Finally got the watch in my hands to take a closer look.

The watch movement along with case and hands were heavily modified. Hands are not original to this watch, they been modified. The hands holes were enlarged so they can feet this caliber. Case also was modified and is not original to this watch. The original lugs were cut and replaced with a larger ones.The numbers on dial, they don’t have the radium lumens like all military watches have, they have black paint. The dial seems to be original but far away to by military. Also I believe the case was borrowed from another watch , perhaps Venus. Looking at the star stamp and I’m comparing with the logo of the Venus watch. They look very similar to my eyes.  Not to mention the balance wheel does not have the Breguet hairsping. According to my research the caliber 570 supposed to have Breguet hairspring and not flat like this one.  Also this particular movement has only 5 jewels. At least this is my conclusion with this watch.

 

26 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

So had wire lugs that makes sense. I have a venus at home to repair so i will check that. Zenith also has a star. Great find matey. Remind me never to ask you to help me buy a watch.

That’s way I have posted my conclusions here, perhaps I can help somebody else in the future not to purchase this watch. This is definitely a Franken watch.  

Edited May 13, 2022 by Baba