Should I buy this ?

[Neverenoughwatches]

After my recent acquisition and new found admiration of pocket watches, I have come across this on ebay. But after some recent discussions reagarding the repair and restoration of them and also noting others struggling with them. I am in two minds whether to purchase it or not. As it is not working and I don't really want it sat around on my workbench for years on end looking at me pleading with me to fix it. It may just need servicing but it may also be a money pit. Should I buy it just for the experience ?  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384864225800?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=6A8Xu8qMTxO&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=tBiLZaCfRb2&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[KarlvonKoln]

Let me know if you don't.  I might. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 minute ago, KarlvonKoln said:

Let me know if you don't.  I might. 

OH is having a look at it for me. I just don't want to have the same problems poor Gary is having with his.  It can be really difficult to evaluate a watch from photos.

3 minutes ago, KarlvonKoln said:

Let me know if you don't.  I might. 

The case and dial don't look in bad shape. If I don't in the next couple of hours mate then you grab it.

[grsnovi]

23158398 is a 1921 grade 293.

Total production of that grade was 718,000.

It is a 7 jewel piece.

I paid $24 USD for my movements. Not one of my 3 Elgins has a case.

As JohnR noted, you really can't tell what you might get since there were so many and you never know who may have tried taking parts from one and putting them into another THEY THOUGHT was the same (like I was trying to do).

[Neverenoughwatches]

24 minutes ago, grsnovi said:

23158398 is a 1921 grade 293.

Total production of that grade was 718,000.

It is a 7 jewel piece.

I paid $24 USD for my movements. Not one of my 3 Elgins has a case.

As JohnR noted, you really can't tell what you might get since there were so many and you never know who may have tried taking parts from one and putting them into another THEY THOUGHT was the same (like I was trying to do).

Thanks G . This one not exactly a bargain then, I just thought the case was in really good condition and thought the dial looked ok

[Nibbler]

I seem to have better luck buying the walthams vs the elgins. Both are of good quality and are great for the budding watchmaker like me. Shattered jewels and broken balance stem pivots seem to be the norm at this price point. Occasionally i get one that just needs cleaning.  Not many franken watches but i do have examples where parts have been clearly swapped around.

Sometimes the seller will say if the balance is moving freely or broken.

i am simply amazed these pocket watches can still be made to work given they are over 100 years in age. The engineering and manufacturing for the time is pretty incredible too.
 

Matt

[grsnovi]

29 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

not exactly a bargain

Well, it has a case so assuming you get it going you have a watch not just experience with a pocket watch movement.

[Neverenoughwatches]

9 minutes ago, grsnovi said:

Well, it has a case so assuming you get it going you have a watch not just experience with a pocket watch movement.

There are loads on ebay in UK. Some working some not. What does the grade indicate, anything to do with quality ?

[oldhippy]

You have already had my answer on this P/W 

[grsnovi]

54 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

What does the grade indicate

From what I can tell Elgin's "grade" is just a "model number". I suppose somewhere there is a comparison of grades but a lot has to do with the size and the number of jewels, etc...

[Neverenoughwatches]

24 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

You have already had my answer on this P/W 

Who's this for OH ?

24 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

You have already had my answer on this P/W 

Hi OH. Yes thank you. I've dismissed that one, I didn't think it was worth the risk of having no crystal and I wasn't happy about the dial either, shame because the case wasn't bad at all. There are quite a few others in working condition that have my interest now. I'm curious as to what the difference is between all the grades and if I should be looking for a particular  one that will give me a better chance of a good buy.

Edited May 7, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[KarlvonKoln]

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

 What does the grade indicate, anything to do with quality ?

Not sure why Elgin, and other American watch companies, came to use the term "grade" so extensively, but it functions as a subcategory which gets used most heavily by us to identify the exact movement and its corresponding parts.

[Neverenoughwatches]

12 minutes ago, KarlvonKoln said:

Not sure why Elgin, and other American watch companies, came to use the term "grade" so extensively, but it functions as a subcategory which gets used most heavily by us to identify the exact movement and its corresponding parts.

So can be an indication of quality if you know examples of all the grades, but not so much if you are thinking the higher the number the better the grade. Do you know if the grades in chronological order ?

12 minutes ago, KarlvonKoln said:

Not sure why Elgin, and other American watch companies, came to use the term "grade" so extensively, but it functions as a subcategory which gets used most heavily by us to identify the exact movement and its corresponding parts.

I'm not interested in the one I was looking at btw, I feel I wanted a better condition of the dial and some idea that it may only need a service. I'm thinking repair can be hit n miss and costly. I'm sure I can learn to repivot in time and I have a decent lathe to start practicing.  The hairspring repair I think I can handle, I was reforming straightening and tweeking small wristwatch h.s. in my first month of starting. Swapping donor springs over was quite straightforward as well. I'd like be able to vibrate, match up and collet pin hs. Pinning the spring into the stud I found quite easy. Then damaged springs and finding new hopefully shouldn't be a problem.  Escape wheel and pallet fork damage  I guess will always be an issue.

Edited May 7, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[grsnovi]

33 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Do you know if the grades in chronological order

They don't seem to be. Grade 320 is dated 1914. Grade 355 is dated 1912.

In my book grades run from 1 to 673.

Grade 313 spans a number of years from as early as 1907 until at least 1928 with more than a half million made in that grade.