French clock

[Willow]

Hi all, i am starting on my first French clock there seems to be a lot of information which i don't understand on the movement and scratched onto the plates the numbers on the movement and pendulum match but the case is wooden and the front looks right but the door and inside the case dosen't considering the date of the clock if i am right is early 1900 

Also the mainspring looks like its been shortened if so will it need replacing any information on the clock would be great thanks

[watchweasol]

 Hi  A.D.Mougin Paris with brocot escapement adjustment , The case ilooks as if its a marriage between clock and case. both of around the same time .    You usually find these movements in marble or slate clock cases and the straps with the screws in hold the front part of the clock  Bezel etc to the rear door assembly  They are nice movements but the only drawback is the pivots are glass hard and will not tolerate rough treat ment (too easy to break)  Mainspring looks as though the hole has torn at some point and been re filed. There is quite considerable force in the spring so consider changing it.

Laverstoke Mill  Hampshire  was a paper Mill  from the 1700;s owned bythe Portal family  now a dislittery producung Portal Gin. The clock probably datea mid 19th cent.  service date of 1903? on the door.

 

[Willow]

Thanks watchweasol  great information i will change the mainspring

[oldhippy]

Its not a marriage. This is how these types of french clock movements were fixed in wooden cases. I have seen hundreds of them. They were painted black to make people think it was black marble or slate. Every thing fits all the numbers are the same bezel, pendulum and movement. It will be 8 day duration, replace that spring with a new one. The style of the hands are called Moon. The info on the dial is the name of the seller and the address. It still has its original suspension spring. 

 

 

 

 

[Willow]

Hi oldhippy thanks for that yes i am going to replace the spring, unfortunately though the suspension spring i think will have to be change as it has kinks in it but i will keep it with the clock.

[clockboy]

I have serviced/ repaired many of these movements. As already stated the pivots are very hard but can be burnished/ polished. Normally if it has not been serviced some bushing will need replacing. As OH has said change the mainspring.

[oldhippy]

46 minutes ago, Willow said:

Hi oldhippy thanks for that yes i am going to replace the spring, unfortunately though the suspension spring i think will have to be change as it has kinks in it but i will keep it with the clock.

That is good practice. 

What I forgot to say one of the reasons why they are painted black is the marble ones were far more expensive. I didn't need to mention the steel because that has already been pointed out to you. Do not clean it in an ultrasonic tank, clean by hand.  

[Willow]

36 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

That is good practice. 

What I forgot to say one of the reasons why they are painted black is the marble ones were far more expensive. I didn't need to mention the steel because that has already been pointed out to you. Do not clean it in an ultrasonic tank, clean by hand.  

Regarding cleaning buy hand on these clocks can you use isopropanaol  instead of paraffin after washing in water.

[watchweasol]

Hi It will be an expensive clean using isopropanol, Paraffin is ok, I use turpentine /white spirit with a drop of oil in it to clean and degrease  then washed water and detergent rinsed and dried  brushed with chalk for a polish,  I have done the odd one in the machine using Priory polishes Ammoniated cleaner with good results and no problems on the plates.  drying is the key 

[oldhippy]

This is how I used to restore these movements.

All brass parts polish with brasso with a soft brush and a clean cloth. Wash out in petrol and dry in sawdust then French chalk using a brush that is just used for the job, this prevents the brass from tarnishing quickly. All steel screws to be cleaned up by means of files mostly needle files, then polished by different emery sticks grit sizes in the end they will have a good shine, this I would do in my lathe. All the screws that had originally been blued would be blued again. I used a bend penny held in a small vice, when the right colour is achieved screws are then put in clean oil I used 3 in 1 this leaves a nice sheen. I would then clean them in an old watch cleaning fluid using an old cleaning machine that I had.  You are going to need a clock mainspring winder for the springs, these are also cleaned in petrol I used pipe cleaners near the end where the arbors go as cloth would not fit between coils. Springs are to be lightly oiled with Windels clock oil. Winding arbors to be de burred and polished in the same way as screws don’t forget the end of the arbor that will be seen at the front of the dial nothing like seeing a highly polished square, also the tip of the centre wheel  and the square of the brocot fine regulator that can be seen above the 12. All pivots cleaned polished and burnished. It has already been said how brittle the steel is so be very careful. Any re bushing is also undertaken and if you are very skilled when done you shouldn’t be able to see the repaired hole.  Don’t forget the pendulum brass parts these are also polished and also the screw is also tidied up but not blued. If the collet is steel polish that as well.

I think I have covered it all. Windels clock oil is used for all the oiling not just the springs.

I forgot to mention don't forget to peg out every hole using peg wood until the holes are showing no dirty marks on the wood. 

[Willow]

I have a mainspring winder and windels oil what i don't have is a lathe to make bushings i can use my Dremel for polishing thanks for your advice oldhippy.

Watchweasol what ratio of white spirit and oil do you use and what type of oil I don't use ammoniated cleaner anymore thank also for sharing how you clean your clocks. Appreciate the time you both have taken the time sorry clockboy and you 

[watchweasol]

Hi  In the old days we used telus 33 a Hydraulic oil, but these days a synthetic 10/40 is ok,   egg cup to 1/2 pt.  still using the old scale.  But remenber to wash with hot soapy water and dry well.  Just take care they clean up real well, although I dont use brasso liquid I prefer the non abrasive silver polish.

[Willow]

finally after being divert on another clock, i am about to order a mainspring for this French clock the problem i am getting is  the same type of mainspring the one i have took out has a blueish colour to it, the H 19.45x Th 0.23x L 102.00 Barrel 30.00

Cousins do 2, one H 19 x Th 0.25 x L 1000 x Barrel 0.25 and the other

                              H 19 x Th 0.25 x L 1300 x Barrel 0.28

and a Company called AGT H x 20 Th x 25 Dia 30.00

Not which is the best option can anyone help please, thanks

[oldhippy]

What is the height of the barrel to the edge inside and the inside diameter.  

[Willow]

The height is 0.20 x dia 0.30 thanks for reply 

 

[oldhippy]

I would go for this one. All new springs come without that blue look it is just the way they are made these days.

     H 19 x Th 0.25 x L 1300 x Barrel 0.28

[Willow]

47 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

I would go for this one. All new springs come without that blue look it is just the way they are made these days.

     H 19 x Th 0.25 x L 1300 x Barrel 0.28

thanks oldhippy got a couple of things to order so will do that now 

[Willow]

Hi all hope you are all ok working on this French clock, and the pallets don't seem right the one on the left seems to have turned any idea how i can get the pallets in the right position thanks

[oldhippy]

Before you start to alter the pallet stones are you sure the angles are wrong for entry and escape? I would like to see the other side to see if they are just pushed in or set by other means. The pallet on the right that I'm looking at in the photo isn't clean around the brass it looks to me like shellac. If they are pushed in it is just a matter of twisting it for the correct setting. Don't forget to check the escape wheel teeth as well you don't want any wear or burr on the tips as this will cause problems.  

[Willow]

Hi oldhippy i am having second thought's someone else said there right but when i look in the book they seem to be the same way so now i don't know see photo

[oldhippy]

You can't just go a book and the diagrams it shows. Just what is happening doesn't it escape at all, is it stopping in the same place if so that tells me it could be a tooth. Any wear to the holes and pivots. Changing the angles of the pallets is a last resort. 

[Willow]

I am just trying to get it back together so i can see if it runs and go from there.

[oldhippy]

Let me know how you get on. 

[Willow]

Still having trouble getting pallets to fit with the escape wheel if i get the pivot in one of the pallet slips through the wheel, if i get the pallets right the pivot will not go in, can not see anything bent, twisted out of shape its so frustrating never had this problem before with something so straight forward might try stripping it down and just try with the escape wheel on it's own and see if the pallets fit then  have to do it when i get back in a few days from my daughters.

[oldhippy]

Is this one of those movements with a  visible escapement? If so you need to make sure the bridge that holds the escape wheel is the correct way round and the screws are also correct. I have know in the past if you put things back such as the screws the wrong way round this can cause problems.