Anyone Have Experience Using Vissin Fluid?

[Ishima]

This is just a point of curiosity really, I have no immediate plans to use Vissin.

But it's a very interesting thing, and I'm wondering just what it's application truly is. Cousins says to heat the fluid and submerge the item, but I've heard of people applying drops of it to the thread/screw? And at any rate, how would you know when it was safe to use without corroding the item you wish to extract the screw from? I've read the .pdf upload of the little manual-pamphlet but it's little help, mostly just health/safety and environmental/disposal information.

[clockwatcher]

Hi Ishima!

I had never heard of Vissin Fluid before seeing your post so I Googled it just to see what it was. I'm not much wiser now than I was before (no real surprise there) other than knowing what it is supposed to do, but I bet there's a chemist on here who will tell us more.

The fluid must be pretty corrosive if it dissolves steel screws but how it leaves the surrounding metal unaffected would be interesting to know. Perhaps it's designed only to react with ferrous metal. We shall perhaps find out! :-)

[Geo]

Sounds like an over priced version of Alum to me.

[Ishima]

Okay you may need to explain Alum to me.

[Geo]

Here you go Ishima, have areas of this:-

http://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/377-broken-stem-inside-crown/?hl=alum#entry2509

[Ishima]

Woah, that's incredible, I bought some Alum Immediately after seeing that! (might take a few days to show up)
Any idea why the steel crowns are okay, but the stems get corroded? are stems made with a different chemical composition than crowns? 

[Geo]

They are two completely different materials with totally different properties, the stem is made of steel and the crown is stainless steel.

[bobm12]

Also make sure the metals are different as above since I've ruined crowns made of steel...not stainless steel. Other chemical I've experimented with apart from Alum which has to be warm to work, is chlorine but it is really aggressive and the crown need to be other than steel and even non plated. All in all, my rate of success is roughly 50/50 so far.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[Ishima]

Oh right, of course, I didn't even consider that. 
I'm right in saying that most steel crowns are infact stainless, though?

Will this react with other materials, such as enamel or cabochons that can be sometimes found on the top of crowns? and the micro gaskets?

Edited April 8, 2015 by Ishima

[Geo]

Oh right, of course, I didn't even consider that. 

I'm right in saying that most steel crowns are infact stainless, though?

Will this react with other materials, such as enamel or cabochons that can be sometimes found on the top of crowns? and the micro gaskets?

I don't think there will be many crowns made from steel, hopefully Bob can tell you what ones to avoid. As for your second question, I don't know, you would have to put that to the test yourself. If anyone does know the answer please let us know.

[RicardoG]

Can the alum (or vissin, maybe) remove by corrosion, the staf from a balance weel? I heard that there is some kinf of acid (don't know witch one) that can do this job, dissolving completely the staf with no afect the blalnce wheel. Better than punch out the broken staf.

Edited April 8, 2015 by RicardoG

[Geo]

It probably would Ricardo, but I would rather go the traditional route. If it was a split bi-metallic temperature compensating balance of the type fitted to quality pocket watches, it would dissolve the steel and completely wreck it.

[RicardoG]

Good point Geo, looking from this angle you are correct. In the other hand, the balances that have this bi-metallic temperature compensating are made with an aloy of metals and not a surface coat, that can react with acid and be removed (if I'm not wrong).

[bobm12]

 

hopefully Bob can tell you what ones to avoid

I appreciate the vote of confidence but honestly I'm more into trial and error here! When I have enough crowns, I deep them in alum and heat. I'm using an old coffee maker to keep it warm. Then I brace for the surprise! ...meaning some will come out OK and some won't! Since they are -- so far -- for my own hobby (not customer's) I don't give it too much thought. I usually replace those crowns with new ones on the watches I service and if I can recover the old ones, then it is a bonus! One thing it is not advised is to use this method for diver, screw on crowns since the alum will cut through and spoit the whole spring/housing setting.

 

Anyway, I have to go now I'll post more if I can think of anything els.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[jnash]

Video of Alum powder doing its thing

http://watchinprogress.com/extracting-a-broken-screw-from-a-watchbridge-plate-alum-powder/

[Ishima]

I recently started off an extraction with some alum I got just recently, first time trying it, doesn't seem to have done anything after 1 day on heat, I will continue to be patient.

[jnash]

tried it 3 or 4 times, 3 times been spot on..

[Ishima]

Might be that i bought the one bag of alum on the market that has a slightly off ratio/mix of chemicals, or i just didn't mix the right ratio of water to alum, or maybe not and maybe it doesn't require that much thought. I have two items in the little jar of mixture, hopefully one will be effected.

[Colditz]

According to the data sheet it is sulfuric acid so pretty corrosive. I would also like to know how this stuff works so does anyone else know if it is good for screw removal etc.?

 

[nickelsilver]

13 minutes ago, Colditz said:

According to the data sheet it is sulfuric acid so pretty corrosive. I would also like to know how this stuff works so does anyone else know if it is good for screw removal etc.?

 

I have used it quite a bit in the past*. It is exactly for dissolving screws stuck in non-ferrous parts, and works really well. The normal procedure is to pour some in a ceramic dish on a little stand, and heat it with the part in it over an alcohol flame. The heat seems to be pretty key. A normal screw just takes a few minutes to dissolve or at least dissolve enough to drop out.

 

*I usually machine out broken screws nowadays.

Edited September 13, 2021 by nickelsilver

[Colditz]

Thanks NS I'll try it, just need to get a ceramic bowl and stand sorted.