What accuracy do you expect from a manufacturer's service facility?

[NewToWatches]

A few weeks ago, I managed to mess up a Seiko 7S26 movement I was trying to regulate.  To be fair, it was the first time I had any watch open, and I didn't have the right tools or magnifier. But emboldened by the University of Youtube, I took the back off a new Seiko 5 to try to get the daily error down into the single-digit seconds.  Long story short, I wound up freezing the hairspring, crying uncle, and sending the watch to SeikoUSA.  They did put things right sort of -- at least the thing is running.  But I was surprised when I put it on the Timegrapher that it was running -26 seconds/day and that the amplitude was around 2.6 in certain positions.  Hmmm.  Given that I could have purchased a new movement for the watch (or another version of the same watch) for less than the cost of service, I have to ask:  is this a "feature" of the 7S26 movement, or the product of a poor service?  What's a reasonable expectation for performance after a factory service for a movement of this type?

The reason for sending the watch into SeikoUSA (rather than replacing it) is a little complicated.  I fully expect to be able to deal with problems like this myself in the future. But I had let my enthusiasm get away with me when I had the watch open.  I also expect that this won't be the first watch movement I will assault and batter before I get my legs under me. Anyway, I made the economically irrational decision to "hit the reset button" on this Seiko as a bit of a slap on my own wrist.  But I did think I would get back a watch running as close to "0" as the factory could make it.

I do have a five year old SXK-007 that I have never serviced that measures out at -5 sec/day in daily wear.   So I know the movement can do better.

Thoughts?

[jdm]

 

8 hours ago, NewToWatches said:

But I was surprised when I put it on the Timegrapher that it was running -26 seconds/day and that the amplitude was around 2.6 in certain positions.

You likely mean a 2.6 mS beat error . Whish is excessive, but not said to affect acceptable timekeeping.

Quote

Hmmm.  Given that I could have purchased a new movement for the watch (or another version of the same watch) for less than the cost of service, I have to ask:  is this a "feature" of the 7S26 movement, or the product of a poor service?  What's a reasonable expectation for performance after a factory service for a movement of this type?

Mechanical mov.ts may have a break-in period, and are sensible to shocks like when shipped So is not uncommon to have to regulate again a new, or freshly service  watch.
If you want guaranteed accuracy all the time get a quartz watch.

[JohnR725]

If you have timing concerns of what you're Seiko Watch is doing after servicing ask the people that service to what sort of timing specifications they were regulating to?

Then I have a link which actually has the timing specification hopefully? I don't know why Seiko doesn't like to publish timing specifications although further OEM watch division they will publish the specifications. So for the link below they have -20 to +49 seconds per day. So looks like your little out of that specification but a lot of times the specifications are averages of more than one position. I would still ask the people whose service what sort of timing specifications you should have and if you're having a discrepancy I would let them know and see what the answer is. Plus if you get an answer come back to us so we know what the answer is.

Then typically like we see above Seiko watches do not have  outstanding timing specifications. That doesn't mean that you can't take a little time and regulated and get a better specification it just means typically there within a range and they seem to be happy that it's in that range they sell lots of watches and I guess if they didn't sell lots of watches then maybe they would try for a little better range Of timekeeping.

 

https://www.strapcode.com/blogs/seiko-mechanical-movements/seiko-7s26-caliber-reviews

[NewToWatches]

4 hours ago, jdm said:

 

You likely mean a 2.6 mS beat error . Whish is excessive, but not said to affect acceptable timekeeping.

[snip]
If you want guaranteed accuracy all the time get a quartz watch.

Yes to the first, and LOL to the second.   I am trying to set my expectations.  I have a Hamilton with an ETA movement that is absurdly accurate and has been for the 15 or so years I have owned it.  So perhaps what I am learning is that a 7S26 movement isn't an ETA mid-level movement, and is priced accordingly etc.    I will try and find out more about Seiko's regulation standard.

[jdm]

4 hours ago, NewToWatches said:

So perhaps what I am learning is that a 7S26 movement isn't an ETA mid-level movement, and is priced accordingly etc. 

If your Hamilton has a 2824, that is an entry level for ETA, less than that do the only the 2801 but it has manual winding and is not popular. Then one would have to see which grade an ETA is, normally if nothing is mentioned its the base one.
Generally ETA and Seiko pretty much deliver the same "accuracy", however as mentioned being these mechanical it can vary largely from one to another depending how it has been regulated, or adjusted if that's the case.
It's one of the topics discussed ad infinitum on owner's forums.

[JohnR725]

4 hours ago, NewToWatches said:

Seiko's regulation standard.

If you want to understand more about Seiko's timing specifications then the thing to do is to look at their OEM division. Normally in the standard Seiko documentation they don't usually specify timing. I have a link below to their OEM division where you can download the data sheets that have timing specifications. Unfortunately Cal. 7S26 Is equivalent to Time Module Inc. (TMI) as Cal. NH26 Which no longer appears on the list so let's see what can find its equivalent? Or I'll do a search on my computer and as I suspected I have the tech sheet.

Then I'm going to snip out some relevant things see you can see the timing specification for this watch which as far as I can tell was probably discontinued. Then if you look at their website you find that they do have watches that have better timing specifications. Perhaps unfortunate problem is that Seiko made a very large quantity of these and they were made to be inexpensive.

4 hours ago, NewToWatches said:

I have a Hamilton with an ETA movement that is absurdly accurate and has been for the 15 or so years I have owned it.  So perhaps what I am learning is that a 7S26 movement isn't an ETA mid-level movement, and is priced accordingly etc

What I find interesting with the above quote is that it's only relevant if at the same time you purchase the Hamilton you saw that the Seiko was priced exactly the same. If there is a difference of time between purchasing the Hamilton and comparing it to the Seiko of five years later or something then you have to look at the pricing again the make sure they're actually the same price.

I do find though pricing of watches interesting. More interesting though with quartz watches. The actual insides in quantity probably cost five dollars and yet there in a case that cost a couple hundred dollars. Because the consumer isn't paying for what's inside other than it keeps time they are paying for what's on the outside.

Then just a warning for the future your Hamilton that's run 15 years have you ever had it serviced? I see this discussion on some of the collectors groups there very happy that they've never paid the greedy watchmaker to service their watch. Maybe minutes their inherited fathers watch it's never been serviced and then they get sticker shock when they go to have it serviced and discover that the gaskets didn't last for all those years. It's not just the lubrication in the watch itself is the gaskets that can fail with time and of moisture gets in your watch you'll keep beautiful time right up until it stops. So it's one of those sad realities of four people were on their watches literally into the ground and then be unhappy with the repair cost. Kinda like if you drove your car you never change the oil at some point time the engine disintegrates.

Then as commented above it would be nice to know the model number of the movement in the Hamilton watch and then we can find timing specifications and you can compared to the Seiko.

Seiko-7s2x nh25_26_TG.pdf

[NewToWatches]

Actually, the desire to get the Hamilton serviced is part of what lead me here and down what I assume will be a long path to being able to do the work myself.  That and a 1960's Omega Seamaster that belonged to my father.   I haven't had the Hamilton open yet, but that will come with time.