Waltham Traveller, First Victim?

[badger]

I've got a Waltham Traveller pocket watch,,,from the serial number it dates as 1917.

I use to wear it, but it broke. I took it to a repairer, but the main spring is broken and the winder is slipping. There's a sleeve inside with 4 paws on it which engages the winding mechanism when pushed down? These paws are gone, so when you push the crown down to wind it, sometimes it catches, sometimes it don't, just spins around.

The repaired can't get hold of the winder part. So it's pretty much scrap.

The question is,,, can I try to repair it myself,,,would it make a good first victim? Or are the watches a bit too complicated for a beginer?

Can I do the main spring myself? Is that possible without a winding tool?

Also, the winding mechanism,,can these be sourced from the web, or would it mean buying a donor watch?

Sorry, loads of questions.

Thanks

Mark.

[clockboy]

There are vids on youtube showing Waltham repairs.

It depends if you have the correct tools & more importantly if you can source the parts. 

 

PS welcome to the forum Badger

[badger]

Thanks clockwork.

Only got some basic tools at the moment, bought a screwdriver set, tweezers, device to take the hands off, loupe, and little pliers.

Will have a look for some YouTube videos.

Sourcing parts, I haven't got a clue where to try there? Is there anywhere/one that stocks parts for these watches?

The main spring, can that be wound by hand or does it require the right tool?

Thanks.

[badger]

Sorry,,,predictive typing, should be, Thanks Clockboy.

[Blacklab]

I don't have a winder and hand wind springs, for more info look at this: http://www.clockmaker.com.au/diy_seiko_7s26/chapter10.html Its a bit tricky first time but gets easier the more you do. As for the parts keep an eye on fleabay or try Cousins.

[clockboy]

Agree with Blacklab it,s also best to be prudent to start with when buying tools & if budget allows buy the better quality tools. 

When you strip the watch it,s a good idea to take plenty of pics as you go for reminders when you re-assemble & don,t force anything as the pivots are delicate & are easily broken.

[WillFly]

On some of the older Waltham pocket watches, the crown and stem are part of the case - not part of the watch movement. When you take off the back and undo the case screws, you have to pull out the crown to its fullest extent before taking out the movement - otherwise you can break the winding stem - which stays with the case.

 

However, I'm a little puzzled as you say: "There's a sleeve inside with 4 paws on it which engages the winding mechanism when pushed down". You shouldn't have to push the stem down - or pull it up - to wind to wind the watch. The crown is normally pulled out to set the hands - unless the watch is lever set - and you just wind the watch with the crown and stem in the normal position. Or have I read you wrongly?

 

I can't be sure without seeing the movement, but irregular or slipping winding sounds like a faulty click mechanism. Any pics you can post?

 

Cheers,

 

Will

Edited March 21, 2015 by WillFly

[CKelly]

Hi,

   I checked a picture of a Waltham Traveler and I would think that The stem would have to be part of the case. Inside the case tube there is a sleeve which can be adjusted with a sleeve wrench. Now I could be wrong as I am just guessing but from what you have said I think part of this sleeve near the bottom has a part with four small pieces called the boss and I'm guessing this is what has worn away?? Without this part your stem can't work properly. Now the good news is that should not have any effect on the movement and if you replace the mainspring you should be able to watch the movement spring back to life. Getting back to the sleeve as it is part of the case you can find cases and non working entire watches pretty cheap.

 

Charles K

[badger]

Thanks guys.

Hopefully see if I can get a few photos attached to this.

The crown pulls up to set the hands to alter the time, and to wind it you push the crown down and turn. It's when you push the crown down to wind it slips. I took the movement out of the case and looking where the winder shaft fits,,there's like a little piece at the bottom. If I insert the winder shaft or a small screwdriver this pushes down,,which I imagine engages the winding mechanism when you turn it?

I also took the mechanism out of the case,,that looks ok?

Hope the photos are ok.

[Willyrover]

The stem and sleeve look to be in good condition. The depth of the sleeve does have to be set correctly so that setting and winding functions engage and disengage correctly. If the winder is slipping the I'd try 'tightening' the sleeve a bit.

That said, how do you know the mainspring is broken? Does the watch wind and wind forever? Do you feel a bit of resistance when winding then it slips?

Try winding it outside the case. See photo.

[Geo]

That said, how do you know the mainspring is broken? (A) Does the watch wind and wind forever? (B) Do you feel a bit of resistance when winding then it slips?

The answer in both cases with a manual wind watch is yes, and with a watch like yours it would be a good idea to confirm your suspicions by winding it out of the case.

Just as an aside, if you have an automatic wrist watch that can be manually wound, it will keep on winding forever if manually wound as the mainspring is designed to slip inside the barrel when fully wound.

[badger]

Thanks wileyrover and geo.

Just tried lifting the little lever up and winding,,,,it goes a couple of turns then it slips, you can feel a slight "clunk", when it does.

I did take it into a watch repairer, that's who said the main spring was gone and the winder shaft was worn. He could get a mainspring but not a winder shaft/sleeve. So, more or less scrap.

I've just won a similar movement off ebay,,described as semi-working, So will see what that one is like and will give it a go to swap the parts over, make a working one out of the two.

[Willyrover]

Well, no. Definitely not scrap. 

 

The mainspring is an inexpensive repair. Springs are readily available. It's also possible that the spring is not broken but one end is slipping off the barrel arbor or the hook on the barrel itself. Have to open the barrel to check.

 

Not sure what the meant by "winder shaft" but if its the threads inside the stem tube that the sleeve threads onto than I supposed it would have to be re-threaded or switched with a donor case.

[badger]

I know when the watch was working, when you pushed the crown down to wind it, it would slip, not all the time, just every few winds. That was till the main spring went ping.

The bloke I took it to, described the winder part, as a shaft with 4 lugs on it,,and that 3 of these have worn off, that's why when it's wound the crown slips. He also said about there being little springs in there. So if the part in the case is ok,,,there's the winder mechanism in the main body,,,could this be the part that has worn? See if I can attach a photo (courtesy of a ebay photo), of the part I mean.

[Willyrover]

I've taken many pocket watches apart and can't for life of me figure out what he meant by a "shaft with 4 lugs". The only shaft would be part of the watch case. Not the movement. 

 

The only spring in the setting mechanism of the watch movement itself is under the circular disc in your picture. In it's natural position, it keeps the watch in setting position. Pushing in the crown or pulling out that little lever on the edge of the movement pushes against the spring and the puts the watch in winding/running mode. 

 

With the movement in the case, did the crown stay "clicked down" when pushed in? Or did the crown keep popping up on its own?

[badger]

Yes,,I had visions of a shift/sleeve with 4 lugs on it,,but looking at the mechanism, there's nothing that would match that. Ive never had a watch apart before, so this is all new to me, but hopefully will learn from it.

When winding the watch, the crown would always spring back up on its own after being pressed down to wind.

When winding, you would hold the crown between your thumb and finger, press the crown down and wind it as far as your fingers will move. Then you let go, the Crown will spring back up. You then press down with your thumb and finger again and wind again.

Sorry if that description, sounds stupid.

When doing that, sometimes it would wind and you can feel the ratchet clicking,,,but then sometimes it would slip and there will be nothing,,it would just spin. So you let it go and press down again,,it would slip a little bit and then catch and start winding again. Some part of the winding mech is not always engaging?

Difficult to describe on here, but hope the description above helps.

[Willyrover]

That description clears it up. My best guess is there are two separate problems that need to be addressed. And both may be very easy fixes.

1. The main spring barrel needs to be opened and you need to see if the spring is broken or if it's not catching the center arbor. Sometimes when they slip a few times the force of the spring slipping opens the inner coil of the spring even further which makes the slipping worse...until it won't catch at all. This can be repair by gently closing the inner coil with some pliers so that its tighter around the arbor.

2. If the stem isn't "clicking" firmly in place that will cause all sorts of problems when winding. These fingers can often be bent slightly inwards so they engage the stem more tightly. Pull the stem out of the sleeve by pulling on the square end. Squeeze the fingers slightly inward. Reinsert the stem and see if it "clicks"

Edited March 23, 2015 by Willyrover

[Geo]

Very well described and illustrated Willy. :)

[badger]

That's brilliant, thanks for your help wilyrover.

Hopefully will get some spare time this weekend to strip the watch.

Thanks.

[badger]

The spare movement arrived, described as working intermittently, but I wouldn't get it to work, completely dead,,oh well.

So following a video I stripped it down, so far so good, no flying pieces, all nicely safe in little pots.

I wanted to open up the main spring barrel to see the spring,,but it won't come apart!

The arbor came out, but the 2 halves of the casing won't seperate. They will come apart very slightly,,but it looks like the spring is joined to the flat,toothed half of the casing.

I don't want to try to pry it apart in case I damage it.

Is there a way to open this up?

[Willyrover]

Never seen a barrel like that. Usually the arbor won't come out until the cover is taken off the barrel.

 

What does the arbor look like?

 

Can you tell if the spring unwinds against the silver portion of the barrel?

 

Or is the silver portion a cover that slides over a brass "wall" that the spring unwinds against?

[badger]

Got the barrel apart, with a bit of careful prying and twisting.

In the wall of the barrel there's a notch for the spring to catch on, while on the brass lid part the centre comes down with a notch for the spring to catch on that part.

There's nothing on the arbor for the spring to catch on,,that gets pushed thru from the outside.

If you wind the spring into the barrel,,how would you get the middle to catch onto the notch in the brass lid part?

[Willyrover]

You'd wind the spring into the barrel then manipulate the brass cover onto the barrel so that the inner coil of the spring is around the part with the notch. 

 

Then rotate the brass cover until the notch engages the hole in the spring. 

Edited March 28, 2015 by Willyrover

[Willyrover]

Found this:

 

 

[badger]

Thanks willyrover that's brilliant of you. Will try to fit it back together tomorrow.