Left or Right Bergeon Mainspring Winder Arbor Handle

[VWatchie]

Let’s say I was to wind the above mainspring into a Bergeon mainspring winder barrel, would I use a left or right arbor handle?

Is it correct that the left Bergeon mainspring winder arbor handles are marked with a blue dot and that the right handles are marked with red dot?
 

[JohnR725]

so I have a 50% chance to get the answer correct? It casually looks like that's a right-handed. One of the ways to think about it is if the ring wasn't a ring if it was the barrel part of the Winder then a right-handed handle will turn this wind it up. Then you flip it over and push the mainspring out it goes the other direction.

typically for 99% of everything you do they handle turns in a clockwise direction. The only time I have issues is with 18 size American pocket watches they typically go in the other direction. then Seiko just to be fun needs a left-handed Winder. Fortunately it's just the handle.

Then if you're buying an older set of the winders the barrels are all the same size but gambles themselves often come with no marker at all and those are really for the older style mainsprings. Something that requires a much more aggressive hook not needed on the modern spring with a really tight sweater curve of the mainspring.

[VWatchie]

5 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Seiko just to be fun needs a left-handed Winder.

It is for a SEIKO. Thanks!

I'm considering buying a handle, barrel drum and arbor separately just to see how (well?) they work. Not happy with my K&D winder.

[nickelsilver]

3 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

It is for a SEIKO. Thanks!

I'm considering buying a handle, barrel drum and arbor separately just to see how (well?) they work. Not happy with my K&D winder.

Did you wind that one with the K&D? I ask because I see a kink in the spring 3/4 pf a turn from the inner end, right about where the hook on the winder would land. Old winders, Bergeon included, often had the hooks way too big, and they can do that to the spring. That's a weak point now, and a possible future break.

[jdm]

6 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

It is for a SEIKO. Thanks!

Please don't get upset for me asking but why full uppercase? It is printed like that on dials and avertising, but we don't normally write ROLEX or OMEGA. 

[VWatchie]

1 minute ago, nickelsilver said:

Did you wind that one with the K&D?

No, I did not. It is a brand new GR spring and it came like that. Yes, I noticed it, but decided to use the spring nevertheless, as this spring is very expensive. It's a GR Automatic Mainspring 0.95 x .12 x 400 x 10.5 and it's £20.7 including TAX intended for a SEIKO 7S36B.

[VWatchie]

2 minutes ago, jdm said:

why full uppercase

Very simple. It looks better and it feels good typing. It could be that I was raised to type the abbreviated company name of a company I was working for in uppercase and the normal way when the full company name was written. Old habits die hard!

7 minutes ago, jdm said:

Please don't get upset for me asking

No worries JDM! 

[jdm]

12 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

No, I did not. It is a brand new GR spring and it came like that. Yes, I noticed it, but decided to use the spring nevertheless, as this spring is very expensive. It's a GR Automatic Mainspring 0.95 x .12 x 400 x 10.5 and it's £20.7 including TAX intended for a SEIKO 7S36B.

It is, you can buy a brand new NH36 Mov't for that money. Fully interchangeable, it also manually winds and hacks.

But I understand that the convenjence of the above doesn't compare to the thrill of opening a barrel that was not designed with that in mind.

[VWatchie]

17 minutes ago, jdm said:

you can buy a brand new NH36 Mov't for that money

That's very interesting! Would its barrel complete fit my Seiko 7S36?

[jdm]

4 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

That's very interesting! Would its barrel complete fit my Seiko 7S36?

Oh I see, you're going after the much sought "full originality" of even a modest piece 

Have a look at my parts interchange document https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRN2UULQKTfKmhRStZhDdIOIQrqd6sPB-g6x2SKyQQjOvTBjG_7TQXQhAT4f1WqAX5QAPkIimi-3jqd/pubhtml

 

[VWatchie]

Thanks for sharing your parts interchange document! Very generous of you! However, I'm a bit confused. Looking in this PDF for the 7S36B the barrel complete is listed as having part number 0201 024, whereas your document states part number 0201 075. Anyway, perhaps a better thread (which I started yesterday) for this is topic is: 

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by VWatchie
Typed 7236B. Changed to 7S36B

[nickelsilver]

No, I did not. It is a brand new GR spring and it came like that. Yes, I noticed it, but decided to use the spring nevertheless, as this spring is very expensive. It's a GR Automatic Mainspring 0.95 x .12 x 400 x 10.5 and it's £20.7 including TAX intended for a SEIKO 7S36B.

Ah ok- it should be alright. Just in the past I've grabbed an old winder and not checked the hook and kinked it and a couple of winds later "snap".

[jdm]

42 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

However, I'm a bit confused. Looking in this PDF for the 7236B the barrel complete is listed as having part number 0201 024, whereas your document states part number 0201 075. 

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. The confusion arises from Seiko themselves when they referenced a non-existent P/N in the attached document, with the intent of detailing the changes between B and C version on page 2. I have corrected this on my document.

7S26C_36C.pdf

[jdm]

On 6/15/2020 at 6:53 PM, jdm said:

The confusion arises from Seiko themselves when they referenced a non-existent P/N in the attached document

I stand corrected. 0201 075 is indeed a valid, alternate P/N for A and B barrel complete.

[mbwatch]

On 6/15/2020 at 9:52 AM, nickelsilver said:

Old winders, Bergeon included, often had the hooks way too big, and they can do that to the spring. That's a weak point now, and a possible future break.

I have found this on a vintage K&D adjustable winder - the hook is just far too big and I am almost never successful getting arbor unhooked from a modern wound spring without pulling it out as a bird's nest. I am considering filing down the hook, which is really just a round pin for either direct winding.

[JohnR725]

8 hours ago, mbwatch said:

I have found this on a vintage K&D adjustable winder - the hook is just far too big and I am almost never successful getting arbor unhooked from a modern wound spring without pulling it out as a bird's nest. I am considering filing down the hook, which is really just a round pin for either direct winding.

Your vintage winders were made for blued steel mainsprings. Any time you had blued steel mainspring is typically the hook must be much more aggressive than the modern style. Modern style the hook is almost is recessed so they're basically different blued Springs need an aggressive hook modern style a less aggressive look. Then if you're only going to do modern watches file it down but if you think you got work on old and new maybe find another set the modified because you can't have enough. Please often times one of the hoax won't work in you will have to try another or if you have several handles you might have to go through several of them to get them to work because that's just the way it seems to be. But if you're just doing modern file away but it might be a problem later on.

[mbwatch]

6 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

But if you're just doing modern file away but it might be a problem later on.

Thanks for this information - I do wind both modern and older blued springs. Mainly I try to use the K&D winder for left handed springs in Japanese movements but it really never works out. I do have a set of right hand Marshall winders with low profile hooks that work much better with modern springs. At some point I will need to invest in a Bergeon handle and proper left hand wind arbor for the one or two sizes I actually need.