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Baumgartner BFG 866

Jon

By Jon
in Your Walkthroughs and Techniques

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TimpanogosSlim WRT Addict

TimpanogosSlim

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hey, thanks for this. I've read through it twice now, because part of my interest is in jump hour watches. I only have one BFG 866 jump hour, but i have two BFG 582 jump hour, and two UMF 24-34 which as you know is a similar design. 

I have a question about lubrication. 

Ironically, my BFG 866 jump hour is the 21J variation. But most of these are 1 or 0 jewel movements. I have maybe half a dozen 866 3-hand movements. 

It seems like the pivot-to-bearing area is larger in these than in jeweled movements, because the bearing is thicker, so perhaps slightly more oil is called for? 

And i have to wonder if the same viscosity is warranted as with jeweled pivot movements in the same size. Specifically i wonder if something heavier than 9010 might be better? 

My BFG 582 movements seemed to have been liberally lubricated with a mixture of 3-in-1 and Mel-Fry which had polymerized into a stiff goop which appears to have been why they stopped working. The bearings don't look ovaled-out like the ones on my UMF 24 movements. Short-lived lubricants for the win? 

Edited by TimpanogosSlim
  • 1 month later...
SAK335 Member

SAK335

Posted
Posted
On 10/23/2020 at 2:21 PM, Jon said:

I've just posted a PowerPoint presentation of removing and re-fitting the friction fitted minute wheel.

Hope it helps. Any questions, don't hesitate to ask, as I expand on the lesson in the class room, so end up explaining more than is in the pictures and captions

Hi can you explain what a "tight fit" on the collet means?  Does it mean that the minute wheel can turn on the collet, or does it need to remain stationary and only turn with the barrel?  

Jon Super WRT Addict

Jon

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  • Author
Posted
On 2/4/2022 at 12:56 PM, SAK335 said:

Hi can you explain what a "tight fit" on the collet means?  Does it mean that the minute wheel can turn on the collet, or does it need to remain stationary and only turn with the barrel?  

With the 'tight fit' you should be able to turn the minute wheel on the barrel with your finger and thumb. The tighter it is, the tighter it feels when you 'hand set' the hands and looser that friction is, will feel sloppy and loose when setting the hands. It takes a bit of practice to find that 'Goldilocks' spot of how much friction to create with the staking tool.

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SAK335 Member

SAK335

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Jon said:

With the 'tight fit' you should be able to turn the minute wheel on the barrel with your finger and thumb. The tighter it is, the tighter it feels when you 'hand set' the hands and looser that friction is, will feel sloppy and loose when setting the hands. It takes a bit of practice to find that 'Goldilocks' spot of how much friction to create with the staking tool.

Thanks, that's very helpful.  I am refurbishing my second one of these now.  On the first one, I didn't mess with this part because I didn't know that the wheel could be removed.  That watch is running nicely.  The current one went together much easier (owing to my being more familiar with the movement) but the hour and minute hands wouldn't turn.  I had originally put the minute on so that it turned freely with almost no resistance after seeing that the wheel could be removed.  I'm not sure if installing it so loose would cause this problem.  I've disassembled it again and armed with this information, we'll see if it makes a difference after an adjustment.

The finished first watch is below.  The second has a nice case but the dial has been relumed and isn't quite as nice as this one.

Lucerne_Diver.JPG

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  • 2 years later...
Burruz Member

Burruz

Posted
Posted
On 3/17/2020 at 10:51 AM, Jon said:

Hi,

I teach watchmaking to complete beginners at Epping Forest Horology Centre, close to Epping and this is one of the lessons on the BFG 866.

I wanted to show my class a classic pin pallet (Roskopf) movement and how to service it, as many watchmakers won't touch these watches as they hold no monetary value. 

image.png.1be4faf6159c5aececcaea4317ce33e9.png

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Turn the setting lever screw 1 to 1 and a half turns to release the winding stem

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A piece of watch paper or small plastic jiffy bag to protect the dial, whilst removing the hands

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The driving pinion is part of the friction fitted minute wheel on top of the barrel. This work in a similar way to a friction fitted canon pinion to set the watch hands

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Remove the keyless work: setting lever, held in place by the setting lever screw, screwed from the other side of the mainplate, then the yoke, which sits on top of the clutch (castle) and also the winding pinion.

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I have three other lessons on this movement that cover bringing the watch 'into beat' as well as taking apart the friction fitted minute wheel from the barrel, lubricating and staking back on to achieve the correct friction setting and finally how to remove the centre seconds wheel safely and refit using a staking set. Many people leave the friction fitted minute wheel on top of the barrel, not realising the amount of old grease that can't be cleaned out from it, as well as not removing the wheel of the centre seconds arbor and again not cleaning out the pipe which has old grease inside.

Hope you enjoyed the tutorial? More to come....

 

image.png

Hi Jon

This is great! A watch with this movement has just arrived so this is very handy. The stem is floating in and out so I suspect a setting lever spring issue as you described. Thanks again. 

  • Like 1
  • 5 months later...
KarlvonKoln Distinguished Member

KarlvonKoln

Posted
Posted

I am bumping up this old post because, @Jon, I wanted to thank you again for this tutorial.  Recently I had to service a customer's vintage Byn Deluxe, a lesser known Swiss watch which uses a Baumgartner 34.  The movement was running but the hands weren't moving.  Luckily, I remembered reading this post a few years back.  I managed to find it here again to refresh my memory, and was able to read what you posted on how to tighten the clutch with a staking set, since the cannon pinion on these movements must remain free, as they are only mounted on an unmoving post.  
I was able to tighten the minute wheel enough to provide just the right amount of resistance, and then - everything got a cleaning, oiling, and regulating.  
The hands move now!!! I am sure I would not have know quite what to do with that thing if I had not read this post.  You are awesome sir!  And so is this awesome forum!

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Jon Super WRT Addict

Jon

Posted
  • Author
Posted
7 hours ago, KarlvonKoln said:

I am bumping up this old post because, @Jon, I wanted to thank you again for this tutorial.  Recently I had to service a customer's vintage Byn Deluxe, a lesser known Swiss watch which uses a Baumgartner 34.  The movement was running but the hands weren't moving.  Luckily, I remembered reading this post a few years back.  I managed to find it here again to refresh my memory, and was able to read what you posted on how to tighten the clutch with a staking set, since the cannon pinion on these movements must remain free, as they are only mounted on an unmoving post.  
I was able to tighten the minute wheel enough to provide just the right amount of resistance, and then - everything got a cleaning, oiling, and regulating.  
The hands move now!!! I am sure I would not have know quite what to do with that thing if I had not read this post.  You are awesome sir!  And so is this awesome forum!

I'm so glad you found it useful

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  • 3 months later...
greyke Member

greyke

Posted
Posted

Hi, I’m new to forums and watchmaking, so hope this is the right place to post a question.

I have just obtained a Mickey Mouse watch ( thought it would be a nice gift for my Granddaughter)

when I’ve opened it up, it is. BF866 movement but the balance is trashed! Does anyone know where I might get a replacement please. Ideally, I would like the whole thing, as I don’t yet have the skills to attach the balance complete to the bridge thing (not sure what it’s called). Apologies for the vagueness, but as I’ve said I’m a newbie.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Regards

Keith

watchweasol Distinguished Member

watchweasol

Posted
Posted

Hi. Depends on where you are in the world,  UK.  Cousins UK,  A.G.TTHOMAS, W H Walsh. USA.  JULES BOREL,  TIMESAVERS  ESSLINGERS,  CANADA.  PERRINS   All material houses. There is always. EBay .    Hope this helps. There was also a tutorual put on this site by Jon. Regarding thr BFG866.

AndyGSi Distinguished Member

AndyGSi

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, greyke said:

Does anyone know where I might get a replacement please. Ideally, I would like the whole thing, as I don’t yet have the skills to attach the balance complete to the bridge thing (not sure what it’s called).

Welcome to the forum.

Your only chance of getting a balance complete with bridge/cock is from eBay
or getting a donor movement which could be luck of the draw anyway.

  • 1 month later...
Bonefixer WRT Addict

Bonefixer

Posted
Posted
On 12/11/2024 at 8:25 PM, greyke said:

Hi, I’m new to forums and watchmaking, so hope this is the right place to post a question.

I have just obtained a Mickey Mouse watch ( thought it would be a nice gift for my Granddaughter)

when I’ve opened it up, it is. BF866 movement but the balance is trashed! Does anyone know where I might get a replacement please. Ideally, I would like the whole thing, as I don’t yet have the skills to attach the balance complete to the bridge thing (not sure what it’s called). Apologies for the vagueness, but as I’ve said I’m a newbie.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Regards

Keith

Did you get sorted? I recently partly trashed one of these movements and bought a spare. Which bits do you need? Happy to send them for postage (balance wheel is fine)

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      isn't it nice to have a decent case open or when the case doesn't want to be opened? In the case of a Rolex watch that supposed to pass specific water resistant testing you probably do need to tighten the back down. But they shouldn't be tightened so much that they risk stripping the threads out. Then the other problem that comes up is the gaskets can start to disintegrate and then getting the back off can be quite a challenge unless you have a really good tool and perhaps some penetrating oil to loosen things up. Yes really nice case marking. When I was in school we were taught to mark the cases and  the American watch and clockmakers Institute even had a? So if you joined at one time they would give you an identification number. They were explaining or giving an example of if the watches ever found in you have a unique number they can perhaps figure out the history of the watch or identify the body it's attached to for instance not that that probably comes up that often. So you got a unique number and even made a special metal stamp that you can purchase. It wasn't a super big aggressive stamp but still it left a mark in the back of the case. Then I heard from people at work on Rolex watches they were using a felt pen indelible but later on they decided that was bad because apparently the ink could release  chemicals although it seems like once it's dry that shouldn't be an issue. Then of course today was nice is you can keep computer records sealed have to mark anything at all I personally find it's best to leave no reference behind that you were even there. Especially when you have a beautiful watch that has no markings at all and now it has your scribbling all over it not good typically if there is a typical and watch repair?  a lot of minor repairs you don't need to do a complete servicing. But beyond a certain point you're going to have to take apart a lot of stuff you're going to disrupt the lubrication even if it looks perfect right now and yes you might as well just go ahead the service the whole thing. also in a watch like this where a lot of things seem to be going on the complete service would be better then you'll know exactly where you stand versus dealing with unknown mysteries for prior repair.
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