Trepidation on servicing vintage V&C 1002.

[MrRoundel]

Greetings all. I recently helped a friend get a V&C watch to give as a gift to someone close to her. That watch is running slow so I'm pretty sure it needs a cleaning and perhaps a new mainspring. Since I have serviced other watches for her,  like Perregaux, Peseux, and the like, she has confidence I can service the V&C. Probably so, but I am hesitant because of the cost of such a watch. I have worked on a V&C movement before, but it was an antique 12L pendant watch movement, but it was my own.

What do people think about my working on such a watch? I have years of experience in servicing watches, and am generally quite careful. I rarely scratch plates by slipping from screws. I would use my brass tweezers whenever possible. Are their any idiosyncrasies in that 18J caliber 1002 that might dissuade me from servicing the watch?

BTW, the regulator arm is about 1/4 of the way towards slowing the watch down. Approximately how much time can be gained per day by moving a regulator? It lost about one minute in 8 hours. Any help, input, etc. is appreciated. Thanks ahead of time.

[nickelsilver]

It's a straightforward movement. That it's losing so much is worrisome, but could be as simple as the regulator pins too spread out. It's a breguet hairspring, so the regulator has less arc/influence, but I have a feeling you'll be fine. I can't remember if it has a T end mainspring but it's likely, if the spring looks good reuse it. It almost certainly doesn't have a separate T coupled with hole end. Those are a pain!

It's a great movement, I'm certain it's a JLC base, but never had that confirmed. The 1003 also is in my mind a JLC base (838), that's a tricky one, ultra flat, suspended barrel, wouldn't recommend working on that one.

[MrRoundel]

Thanks, nicklesilver. I appreciate your input. I will say that winding the watch is so smooth that it almost seems too easy. That got me thinking about an old, or perhaps improper, mainspring. It just offers soo little resistance. Maybe they have some force-multiplying proprietary design? (Half kidding.) Thanks again.

Cousins shows the MS as being a GR2291, which doesn't seem unusual, and is well stocked.

[MrRoundel]

Greetings. Regarding the same movement, V&C caliber 1002, I read that it is very sensitive to adjustments of the tension spring for the indirect center seconds. If I remove and replace the spring to match how it came off, if possible, does the adjustment remain? Or do I have to adjust it after replacing? I read that it not only effects the motion of the seconds hand, but also the motion of the balance. That is, if I'm reading correctly.

Oh, and does the movement come out of the spacer ring while the spacer ring stays in the case? Or do I have to remove the spacer and movement as a unit. The spacer looks like a very tight fit. There are a couple of notches in the spacer. Does the spacer have to rotate to align something with those to remove? I have it a preliminary test nudge with my screwdriver, and it seemed pretty solidly set. I had not removed the stem, but watched for movement around it. Many thanks ahead of time. Cheers.

Edited February 29, 2020 by MrRoundel
Punctuation.

[nickelsilver]

Sorry, didn't see this earlier! The tension spring should be the same when you put it back; that is, if it is adjusted well now, it still will be. And true, if the tension is too light, the seconds hand will flutter, and seem to stop sometimes, then catch up; if it is too strong it will zap your amplitude.

 

As for the casing, it's hard to say. As always, just proceed slowly and force nothing. There have been cases where the "metal" ring is more or less part of the case, but not sure on that one. You may be right that the something need to rotate, may be the movement itself. Get the case screws loose, and see. Beware the case screws may tighten the movement in place by loosening them, my suspicion there comes from the gap near the word "eighteen".

[Nucejoe]

(1) On tension spring side of center pinion, what lubricant should we use on it's pivot that sits on T spring. (2) what about lubrication of the dial side of center pinion? Which sits on center jewel.   

Tension spring is there just to keep center arbour in place, should not push on it's pivot, a .01 mm free play is required for seconds arbour.

In pendent up or down position, you should see no effect caused by T spring, installed or removed.

I have seen this type of movements start loosing amplitude a month after service. Just have culprits at center pinion to blame.

 

[nickelsilver]

I treat the pinion and spring with epilame, the oil both ends with 9010. The spring does need a bit of tension, or the hand will be unstable. I personally hate this system, and there were elegant alternatives that don't eat amplitude.

Beware when you fit the seconds hand, you'll want to put a bit of old mainspring or something between the pinion and tension spring and set it all down on a bench block while pressing the hand on. Otherwise you can easily damage the spring.

[MrRoundel]

Thank you both for your input, info, and further clarification. That's interesting about using the piece of mainspring under between the pinion and spring. I wonder if I can use a Bergeon dial protector? Too thick? Thanks again.

BTW, nickelsilver, I hadn't attempted to remove the movement yet, so no harm done in the delayed response. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge. I'm still a bit hesitant on servicing this watch. Time will tell.  Cheers.

Edited March 3, 2020 by MrRoundel
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