Buren clock balance wheel jewel position

[Cmmb8519]

Hi all

 

Just finishing service of a nice Buren fireside clock movement.

 

When assembling the balance wheel noticed that the jewel (at resting position) is at the opposite side of the pallet fork (red circle on the photo) . Is there any reason for this on this old movements? To create some pressure on the balance spring?

 

This clock was not working and for the locks of it before cleaning, I beleive it did not have a service for more than 20 years.

 

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[Nucejoe]

The impulse jewel ( in red circle) should come to rest inside the fork horn, for the escape mech to be in beat. staff, fork, escape wheel pivots should fall on a streight line.

Re awmove/ reinstal , either the roller or the hairspring to bring in the said positon.

It will not run as is, any inaccuracy in positioning the impulse jewel (  on midline  between the banking pins will result in beat error correspondingly.

Do you know how to perform this task?

Edited October 6, 2019 by Nucejoe
HS should coil in proper direction

[Nucejoe]

Typo there, corretion.

Remove/ reinstal , either the hairspring or the roller to bring impulse jewel in said position.

[Cmmb8519]

The impulse jewel ( in red circle) should come to rest inside the fork horn, for the escape mech to be in beat. staff, fork, escape wheel pivots should fall on a streight line.
Re awmove/ reinstal , either the roller or the hairspring to bring in the said positon.
It will not run as is, any inaccuracy in positioning the impulse jewel (  on midline  between the banking pins will result in beat error correspondingly.
Do you know how to perform this task?

Thanks very much.
I know how to remove the hair spring and reposition it, but don't know how to reposition the roler. I beleive it is time to buy the right horotec tool to do it.
Which procedure will be less risky to damage it?


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[Nucejoe]

Do you have a stem vice, grip the roller in prongs  of the stem vice. Slight clock- anticlock turn with the (stem vice)  as you gently pull out. 

Hold the wheel on the outer rim by hand.

 

[Marc]

The hair spring has been installed 180 degrees out at some point and is almost certainly the reason the clock didn't run.

The simplest fix is to remove the h/s and balance from the cock and rotate the h/s collet 180 degrees around the staff. 

The question is how did it come to be installed so far out of whack in the first place. 

[oldhippy]

2 hours ago, Marc said:

The hair spring has been installed 180 degrees out at some point and is almost certainly the reason the clock didn't run.

The simplest fix is to remove the h/s and balance from the cock and rotate the h/s collet 180 degrees around the staff. 

The question is how did it come to be installed so far out of whack in the first place. 

I couldn't put it better myself. 

[Nucejoe]

 Will you show the bridge side's view of the cock- balance  assembly?  Bridge top view.

The side you,ve showed is usually confusing. 

 

[Cmmb8519]

 Will you show the bridge side's view of the cock- balance  assembly?  Bridge top view.
The side you,ve showed is usually confusing. 
 

Here you go.

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[Nucejoe]

12 minutes ago, Cmmb8519 said:

Here you go.

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Ya has done a one eighty,  impulse jewel should be about where the regulator arm is standing. Perhaps the collet is flipped upside down too. OH would know better than us all I guess, I have never seen clock hairspring upclose.

[Nucejoe]

5 hours ago, Cmmb8519 said:

Thanks very much.
I know how to remove the hair spring and reposition it, but don't know how to reposition the roler. I beleive it is time to buy the right horotec tool to do it.
Which procedure will be less risky to damage it?


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Roller is easier to R/R .

[oldhippy]

The impulse pin should be in the dead center, so it has an even tick. Many will start up on there own just by adding a little power.  

[oldhippy]

If you know how to re-position the H/S you don't need a tool to move the roller on this clock movement. 

[Cmmb8519]

If you know how to re-position the H/S you don't need a tool to move the roller on this clock movement. 

Thanks all
I was able to easily R/R the hair spring to move the impulse jewel to the right position. In fact the collet was a bit lose which might explain the 180 degrees rotation.
Any advise on how to tidght up the collet?

The next issue now is that I'm starting to have the feeling that someone mixed parts here from other clock. It does not seem to be enough space between the impulse jewel and the pallet fork. On the rotation to the left the Jewell pin is able to go out of the plallet fork, but when goes right the jewell pin gets stuck in the fork slot and cannot go out, which might be causing the collet to rotate in the balance staff.
Any experience before in similar situation?

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[oldhippy]

I notice that the platform is not fully jeweled. Check for wear on pivots and the holes. Are the pallet jewels correct, faces smooth, not loose in there fittings, if you remove the balance complete and move the pallets from side to side, do the teeth for the escape wheel escape, are they worn? Is the impulse pin smooth it should be and tight in its fitting, the right length. As the hairspring was put on like ass backwards, someone with little or no experience has been playing about with this clock movement.     

[praezis]

In the 1st picture it looks like the lower part of the pallet fork (between banking pins and balance) is bent. This makes your problem.

Frank

[Cmmb8519]

In the 1st picture it looks like the lower part of the pallet fork (between banking pins and balance) is bent. This makes your problem.
Frank

Spot on!
See more photos below.
I will try my luck tomorrow and try to put it straight and will let you know.
Thanks!


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[Nucejoe]

On 10/6/2019 at 9:37 AM, Cmmb8519 said:

Thanks very much.
I know how to remove the hair spring and reposition it, but don't know how to reposition the roler. I beleive it is time to buy the right horotec tool to do it.
Which procedure will be less risky to damage it?


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Best chance to work on the collet was when you had removed the hairspring.

Perhaps  Wrong roller or staff?      I glue the roller on staff ,use apoxy, just for a test run. To see if this parts makes a movement or someone just installed what they had, if it ran with promising performance, you can always pull the balance assembly out and build the balance as correct as we can. 

If we buy tools as soon as we feel we need one, wife kicks us out of the house. 

[Nucejoe]

1 hour ago, praezis said:

In the 1st picture it looks like the lower part of the pallet fork (between banking pins and balance) is bent. This makes your problem.

Frank

Good eyes frank. Amazing.

[Cmmb8519]

Good eyes frank. Amazing.

Pallet fork straightened and the movement is now running like it gained a new life!!! All fixed!

Thanks for all your help and big special thank you to Frank!

Great support from all of you always.
Great to keep learning given I only do this as an hobby.

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