Minute Wheel Problem - Seiko 27 Jewel 4006

[DavidMasters]

I'm working on an old Seiko Bellmatic 4006 27 jewel. During assembly I discovered the center cog of the minute wheel was separated from the outer gear, so now instead of a single assembly minute wheel I have two parts. Obviously the wheel may slip. I don't want to locate another wheel because it's not of great importance. I would like to repair if possible. I know glue is unforgivable, but that is all I can think of to get them back into a single wheel. 

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Regards.

UPDATED...I found a new wheel from Jules Borel for $7.95 + shipping, so I ordered. It is easier and cheaper than I thought. But, I still would like to attempt a repair...

Edited September 17, 2019 by DavidMasters

[jdrichard]

I'm working on an old Seiko Bellmatic 4006 27 jewel. During assembly I discovered the center cog of the minute wheel was separated from the outer gear, so now instead of a single assembly minute wheel I have two parts. Obviously the wheel may slip. I don't want to locate another wheel because it's not of great importance. I would like to repair if possible. I know glue is unforgivable, but that is all I can think of to get them back into a single wheel. 
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Regards.
UPDATED...I found a new wheel from Jules Borel for $7.95 + shipping, so I ordered. It is easier and cheaper than I thought. But, I still would like to attempt a repair...

I have used JB Weld to keep a Pinion from slipping. Need to put it on the shaft and the bead of JB Weld left over from the shaft helps keep the Pinion in place as it is glued to the wheel as well. I made a YouTube video on transplanting a Pinion.

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[DavidMasters]

1 hour ago, jdrichard said:

I have used JB Weld to keep a Pinion from slipping. Need to put it on the shaft and the bead of JB Weld left over from the shaft helps keep the Pinion in place as it is glued to the wheel as well. I made a YouTube video on transplanting a Pinion.

 

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Thanks for the informative video. I have always shied away from using glue anywhere close to a watch movement, but JBWeld may be exactly what I need. My repair is very simple, so I'll give it a go.

[jdrichard]

Thanks for the informative video. I have always shied away from using glue anywhere close to a watch movement, but JBWeld may be exactly what I need. My repair is very simple, so I'll give it a go.

It hardens fast so mix and apply fast.


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[oldhippy]

I used to make parts for clocks such as pivots, mounting wheels that sort of thing. Add a little Loctite will do the trick. Make sure you buy the right type. 

[DavidMasters]

2 hours ago, oldhippy said:

I used to make parts for clocks such as pivots, mounting wheels that sort of thing. Add a little Loctite will do the trick. Make sure you buy the right type. 

I saw a video recently where a guy(scientist) compared the super glue brands and Loctite came out on top. 

I ordered a new wheel, but I'll keep it as a backup incase my fix does not work.

Regards...

[jdm]

21 hours ago, DavidMasters said:

During assembly I discovered the center cog of the minute wheel was separated from the outer gear, so now instead of a single assembly minute wheel I have two parts. Obviously the wheel may slip. I don't want to locate another wheel because it's not of great importance. I would like to repair if possible. I know glue is unforgivable, but that is all I can think of to get them back into a single wheel.

No need for glue. Tap slightly just around the hole with a flat nose stake. It can be done even without a staking set.

[DavidMasters]

30 minutes ago, jdm said:

No need for glue. Tap slightly just around the hole with a flat nose stake. It can be done even without a staking set.

I sort of understand, but not completely. are you saying put the two parts together and then tap slightly with a nose stake(I have one)? Do I use the nose stake from the back of the minute wheel?

Regards...

[jdm]

9 minutes ago, DavidMasters said:

I sort of understand, but not completely. are you saying put the two parts together and then tap slightly with a nose stake(I have one)? Do I use the nose stake from the back of the minute wheel?

No. You use a stake/punch from a staking set, or similar tool, to close slightly the hole of the wheel. Then fit the pinion by friction, again the staking set is useful to do that.

 

[DavidMasters]

27 minutes ago, jdm said:

No. You use a stake/punch from a staking set, or similar tool, to close slightly the hole of the wheel. Then fit the pinion by friction, again the staking set is useful to do that.

 

Ok, I now understand. I will take a close up picture of the pinion, but if I remember correctly there may not be enough material left on the pinion to press into the wheel—I think it sheared off the pinion where it was pressed into the wheel. Since my lovely wife has no clue what I would be asking her to do, and I'm not at home right now, it may be a day or so before I can post a picture. This sounds like the proper way to repair.

Many years ago I bought two complete staking sets from an older gentleman that was selling his tools. Both appear to be very old but they work perfectly.

Regards...

[jdrichard]

No need for glue. Tap slightly just around the hole with a flat nose stake. It can be done even without a staking set.

JM is correct if the Pinion is fitted inside the wheel. I was talking about a Pinion that is on a shaft with the wheel separate.


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[DavidMasters]

On 9/18/2019 at 3:00 PM, jdm said:

No. You use a stake/punch from a staking set, or similar tool, to close slightly the hole of the wheel. Then fit the pinion by friction, again the staking set is useful to do that.

 

Here is a close-up of the pinion and minute wheel detached. As you can see, it WILL be possible to Stake the two back together because the bottom nose/flange remains in good shape. I ordered a new wheel since it was a cheaper fix than I thought, but I will Stake the original wheel and pinion and place it in my parts box.

Regards...

[jdm]

6 hours ago, DavidMasters said:

As you can see, it WILL be possible to Stake the two back together because the bottom nose/flange remains in good shape.

The pinion teeth likely left slight indents in the hole. As you put it back together place the tooth in the middle of these and you may achieve good friction without massaging the wheel first. 

[jdrichard]

The pinion teeth likely left slight indents in the hole. As you put it back together place the tooth in the middle of these and you may achieve good friction without massaging the wheel first. 

You are correct, although the Pinion will tend to take the easiest path and may slide into the existing slots. To tell you the truth, I would stake it on and then put a bit of JB Weld on the back side just to make sure it is secure.


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