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noirrac1j

Bfg 866 Reconstruction And Final Outcome

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Hello my fellow horologica aficionados...I've had a long day as usual, but couldn't wait to get the hour/minute/seconds dials on the baumgartner 866 and finish putting it together. The result is better than I could have hoped. This is my very first movement I've ever torn down, cleaned and re-assembled! Everything came out great!  The watch is working and keeping good time (so far) the hour minutes and seconds are all turing over as they should. It took 3 times putting in the dials in and then removing and adjusting them until I got the hour wheel to turn right on the mark (i.e. XX:00). I am going to start another movement right away! I have posted pictures and I again want to thank Mark for his excellent video and running commentary and insights as he did the work--I wouldn't have been able to do it without that specific video as my template guide.. I've watched the AS1900 overhaul about 10 times!  Oh yeah, the case is being replated so stay tuned for a "what's on your wrist" post.

 

P.S. I wanted to post a little video of the movement working but I haven't figured out how to do it yet.

Regards,

JC

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Edited by noirrac1j

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Hello JC,

 

I am going to strip down a jump watch and wondered what you used to remove the central disk.  there appears to be two holes that may hold the key.  I was thinking about using two 1mm watch hand levers through those holes, is that how you did it ? The seconds disk was already off and floating around in the case.

 

post-197-0-21200200-1417484142_thumb.jpg

 

Cheers,

 

Vic

Edited by Vich

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Hello JC,

 

I am going to strip down a jump watch and wondered what you used to remove the central disk.  there appears to be two holes that may hold the key.  I was thinking about using two 1mm watch hand levers through those holes, is that how you did it ? The seconds disk was already off and floating around in the case.

 

attachicon.giffront plus detached dial.JPG

 

Cheers,

 

Vic

Hi Vic, Yes use two 1mm handlevers or two old 0.80mm screw divers to gently pry and pull up the center dial...take your time, be firm but gentle.

JC

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Very good work JC, if this was your first attempt I find it to be most successful! Keep it up! :goodjob:

Hey Bob, yes indeed ity was my first attempt. I had to tweak a few things after the fact but I have just done another jump hour and both are running very nicely. I'm still waiting for a mainspring winder to arrive because yesterday I tried removing one from a spare barrel I had. After oiling it and winding by hand (with latex) gloves, I discovered it was in the wrong direction whe the barrel arbor hook wouldn't hold. I had to unwind and rewind by hand and I did it! its not impossible and I didn't ruin the spring, but it took me a while.

JC

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That's all it takes, patience and a good hand JC, you just found the formula all by yourself!!! I believe you are on your way for a most rewarding hobby!

 

By the way, I don't care much about winders at this stage. Maybe at some point down the line but not now. I do all my main springs by hand. As you did, I use surgery gloves better than the Bergeon finger cots in order not to "contaminate" the parts. I've seen people working on watches that can be possitively IDd from them after they are done!

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Thanks Bob! Yes I really meant to say I use blue nitrile gloves not latex.  Winders are hard to get even on 'bay, but I'm sure I'll get one if I can just stay on top of them long enough. How is it that you've seen people ID'd from working on a watch after they were done?!? Sounds like it could be a good story! 

 

J

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Well, I just meant they could because of the way they handle the watch parts and all. Check them out when they change batteries at the Mall. The watch comes out full of fingerprints and what nots!

 

Respect to winders, they are not "universal" but you probably know that. Once you get the first you will be getting all the rest for the movements you work on as they are specific to certain movements...it is like starting a collection of which I'm so good -- I collect anything and everything - I'm afraid I would start getting them all. And not seeing an end to that I'm staying away as long as possible from getting them.

Edited by bobm12

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Well, I just meant they could because of the way they handle the watch parts and all. Check them out when they change batteries at the Mall. The watch comes out full of fingerprints and what nots!

 

Respect to winders, they are not "universal" but you probably know that. Once you get the first you will be getting all the rest for the movements you work on as they are specific to certain movements...it is like starting a collection of which I'm so good -- I collect anything and everything - I'm afraid I would start getting them all. And not seeing an end to that I'm staying away as long as possible from getting them.

 

I live in NY, so yeah I definitely know about fingerprints. In fact, I did a whole presentation on the use of DNA in the courtroom, but now that really is another story! The winder I am trying to get comes as a set and has 7 differently sized barrels. I've seen them selling some for pocket watches and some for wrist watches, so I look carefully at the pictures. I just ordered a cannon pinon remover because I think I really like working on watches....in my spare time which is usually very little. I collect watches and I do have some basketball cards.

J

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I ended up collecting cards too but not basketball ones. My kids and I used to play Yugioh and even went to local "tournaments". So whenever I bough cards for them I bought the same for myself and that spanned a couple of years of intense gaming! Lots of things I collect is because of my kids -- others because of myself -- since I take every opportunity to share in their world or attract them to mine. They usually observe when I'm fixing a watch but so far they just help to find parts!

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Correction! I just noticed that I put up a picture that shows the incorrect placement of the hour wheel guard. This is the sickle-shaped brass plate on the dial side of the movement in images #17 and 18. This guard should go ON TOP of the hour wheel NOT below. The watch will run and stop if placed like this. Sorry for the wrong picture. I took the picture before I caught the mistake and fixed it on the actual movement, but forgot to put the correct image showing proper position of this part. I will try to remove the old photo or at least add a new photo with correct placement.

 

JC

Edited by noirrac1j

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Just overhauled my first jump hour this weekend, and I'd like to add a pointer for others tackling this creative movement. As a novice, I have not worked on that many day/date complications, let alone a date/hour/minute one! I encountered a fair bit of difficulty when trying to replace the marker wheels. Specifically the rapid change springs. I did my very best to lose the date spring, having fired it in no less than 5 directions, and learning in due course that it is not an easy part to find a replacement for. Somehow, I managed to locate the spring time and time again, and finally realized that my efforts were being hampered by fatigue. Well rested and with a determination to re-fit the dials correctly, things went better the following day. I'll share what I learned:

 

Most important point - I do not claim credit for the idea, others here have mentioned it several times - work inside of a transparent plastic bag when you are installing these springs!!! The errant parts were MUCH easier to locate once I had confined them to that space!

 

Install the wheel retaining plate first, then the spring. With all of the gears and levers in place below, it is significantly easier to feed the spring into it's opening, and then set it in place than it is trying to set the plate with the spring in the "armed" position. I know that seems like pretty obvious advice, but so is "don't work on watches when you are tired", and obvious advice such as this is not followed always or by everyone, so for those who are reading this at 3AM, trying to figure out how to get those &%$ springs that have been giving you fits for hours in their place, please go to bed. Try it this way in the morning. Then celebrate.

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Hello Rustycott. Yes yes yes.....never work on a watch of you're tired! I have been that guy at 3am trying to doggedly get that movement together and it always winds up with something either installed incorrectly or something lost. You are also right about first placing the retaining plate and then putting in the spring afterward. I cannot work inside a plastic bag, but I do use a toothpick to hold the spring in place and then go ahead with the tweezer to position it into its "arrmed" state. It ususally works for me, but then again I have had ALOT of practice with jump hours! Hey please post a picture of your work...I'd love to see it and bet others would too.

 

JC

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I received my Sicura with a bad balance staff, so it has currently reached waiting for parts status, fresh 98% assembled, uncased movement. Thanks to this great post, I didn't even need to take reference photos when I took it down! I'm going to use the wait time to do some badly needed case and bracelet work. For this project, I think I'll hold off on the pics until it's ready to wear. Shouldn't be too long now!

 

Ah, what the heck, here is a little teaser for you

 

post-456-0-25853200-1418652495_thumb.jpe

 

Please keep me informed of any progress you make on that replacement crystal search. I think that latest find of yours has potential. 

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Hey that looks like its gonna be a winner! Because I see that it looks like you are are replacing the balance staff and hairspring, but using the old balance cock, I will give you a suggestion. I have changed these out other Sicura movements (BFG 158 and 158 31/7auto) and the hairpsring stud requires a firm and steady pressure to "friction fit" it into the balance cock itself. It isn't going to be easy but I used a pair of brass tweezers. First settle the stud into the balance cock with a gentle pressue just to get it to stand on its own, then take the open tweezers and position it over the top of the stud and the bottom of the balance cock so that you can actually place enough pressure using the tweezers to make it fit. I then finish it with a steel pair of tweezers only because they are stonger and have less give. Also Rusty, make sure that the hairspring is poised! You MUST make sure by placing the newly installed balance hairpsring into the movement and eyeballing the jeweled finger to make sure it is between the two banking pins. If not you can 1) place a small mark with a sharpie or something on the balance cock to indicate where the jeweled finger impulse witll be properly positioned between the banking pins, then remove the balance/hairspring assembly and place it upside down on the bench and 2) take a smaller scredriver and gently pry up the hairspring from the balance by lifing the collar and repositioning the jeweled finger impulse (which is on the balance staff/wheel itself) so that it is where it should be. If you don't do this and get too excited and forget, the movement may or may not jump to life, but it will certainly run badly and will have a characteristic lop-sided sounding tick to its beat. Finally, don't forget to thread the hairspring through the regulator. Mark has a good video and he mentions the regulator and stud should be on opposite ends of each other so that when the balance is in place it will not distort if you try to tweak  the regulator. 

 

JC

Edited by noirrac1j

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That is some very valuable advice! I have watched Mark's most excellent vid (which incidentally put me onto the trouble I couldn't previously identify with an ETA 2878) 

 

I'm not a fan of the press in balance cock stud, but I am grateful for the pointers. Seems like a staking tool or some other kind of press would be the bees knees for the job. I do not own such a thing, but what I do have is a long history of repurposing tools and various sundries found in and around the house.  

 

-Jeremy

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Hey Rusty,

I don't own a staking set either, and up to now I haven't needed one. I have pinpointed 2 crystals that are correct in every respect to fit the Sicura BFG 866 jump hour case, and have ordered at least 6 crystals (4 of one type and two of another). I should be receiving them any day now and will let you know the final outcome. If they fit and you'd like one, we can discuss how to make that happen. Here is a picture of a sicura I  overhauled and recently had the case replated. This is one that will get a new crystal, and It is one of the few gold-plated watches I wear. Talk to you soon.

JC

 

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P.S. You'll notice I've changed the whees to make it easier to read....they are now the same color as the chrome colored Sicuras. I have a lot of spare parts.

Edited by noirrac1j

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That looks fantastic! The replate looks terrific as well. I'm normally not a gold guy either, but I think that is a great look. Was the plating costly? I've only ever checked into it on one occasion, and it was prohibitively expensive in that case.  

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Thanks Rusty,

 

Yes thank you...it is somewhat "flashy" as gold tends to be, but the watch is unique in many ways, and so that becomes the main focus when someone comments on it. The replating was done by The Time Preserve in Waterford Michigan by John Schult and it was $210.00 to do all the polishing and replating of the caseback i(n white nickel/rhodium) the crown, and the case itself. Shipping was included.The plating time they told me, is a relatively long 5 minutes and deposits about 8-10 microns onto the base metal case. I think the minimum most people suggest is 5 micron plating. The only down side is that it took about 3 months turn around time to do two watch cases! I had another done completely in white nickle/rhodium and it looks phenomenal. There is one caveat about replating and that is that they cannot replicate any brushed surfaces--these can only be lightly buffed followed by replating, or in the case of deeper scratches and such will have to be smoothed out completely before replating.

 

JC

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I received my Sicura with a bad balance staff, so it has currently reached waiting for parts status, fresh 98% assembled, uncased movement. Thanks to this great post, I didn't even need to take reference photos when I took it down! I'm going to use the wait time to do some badly needed case and bracelet work. For this project, I think I'll hold off on the pics until it's ready to wear. Shouldn't be too long now!

 

Ah, what the heck, here is a little teaser for you

 

attachicon.gifIMG_9613.jpeg

 

Please keep me informed of any progress you make on that replacement crystal search. I think that latest find of yours has potential. 

 

Hey Rusty,

I've got some great news on the two crystal types I've ordered. One of them is a perfect fit! This was no easy task as I have been trying to get a crystal for some time. Here are some photos of the original and the CY-934 from Germanow-Simon:

 

post-328-0-64488000-1419297354_thumb.jpg

 

And here it is on the watch. It is exactly the perfect fit with only manual pressure needed--there would be no way to do it otherwise because it has to be done from inside the case pressing outward. As I told you in the last post, I ordered several of these from GS (The minimum order is 4 crystals, plus shipping) and if you'd like one, I am willing to send you one for cost---I won't charge you shipping. I think you'll find the cost more than reasonable! Send me a PM and I'll give you the details OK? Have a wonderful Holiday Season!

 

JC

 

 

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Edited by noirrac1j

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Good afternoon, sorry to revive an old post. I just bought a Sicura jump hour and it seems I have few problems, 

1. The back case seems not to be original and not have any gasket. Is there suppose to be a gasket there?

2. The movement spacer look very suspicious and it push on the case back make it very difficult to close. Do you know what the orriginal spacer look like.

3. The case don't have a crown tube attach and nothing is water proof there. How it should be setup?

4. My crystal is broken and thanks to you I know witch one to order.

5. My fault, when I took the crown out I unscrew a bit to much and now the stem holder is still not attach to the screw. Is it an easy way to reattach it? Thanks

On 12/22/2014 at 5:17 PM, noirrac1j said:

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