My First Strip Down: Bwc With Fhf St 96-4 Movement

[colinh]

This was my first watch, which my grandparents gave me for my 7th (I think) birthday.

I remember listening to the ticking and admiring the radioactive glow under the bedcovers every night.

 

Today my screwdrivers arrived, and some hours later I have a nicely stripped watch, with lots of tiny bits all over the place.

 

Like Phil, I managed to lose one of the screws, the tiniest as it happens (0.6 mm ø, 0.8 mm length). I wasn't too bothered as

a) I assumed it would turn up again

b ) it wasn't very a very important screw anyway. It just held a tiny plate covering the date advance gear/cam. (ie the screw between dates 12 and 13 in the Ranfft database pic below (is it OK, to link to other people's photos?)

 

 

 

 

Anyway, it did turn up again, after I'd given up looking for it. :)

 

 

 

Ah. One problem: how does one remove the cannon driver pinion? Or rather, how can I do it if there's a specialised tool needed?

 

 

I was going to clean everything in an ultrasonic bath, with Sambol Platina 1:20 cleaning solution, but I don't have a special rinsing solution. Is distilled water ok?

 

Looking forward to getting my lubricants from France. Any day now...

Edited September 23, 2014 by colinh

[colinh]

Excuse the crummy pic, I haven't got my macro workflow set up yet :( And my phone camera has dust in it...

 

[bobm12]

Hi colin,

 

This is what I do and you probably know most of it.

 

Normally, I remove the canon pinion with the thicker part behind the tip of my tweezers. I try to pull them as straight up as possible but there is always the inevitable angling of the tweezer when pulling (you don't want to lose control during pull or bend the wheel stem/axle). The tool you mention allows for a more straight up pull -- usually for the purist, I haven't have any problem with my method.

 

I can't distinguish well the canon pinion in your picture but it shouldn't be a different procedure. As a side note, I'm glad you found the screw.

 

Also, you can clean all the parts by hand with lighter fuel. Soak them in it and move around gently, inspect and rub with wooden stick (pegwood) as necesary. I would peg (rub dry with pegwood stick) the jewel prior to this to scratch out all the old oil. I wouldn't wash anything in water (maybe it is just me) because of corrosion. In any case, lighter fuel and then alcohol. Blow dry carfully each part with pump. Never breath on the parts to avoid corrosion.

 

For the date ring and other such parts (plastic, not plastic wheels), soap and water is fine.

 

For the dial, gently rodico and/or disolved dish detergent on a q-tip (stick with cotton at the end) and gently caress it, and pat dry with a dry one, carefully and ....oh well, better not touching it if you don't need to. Those are really finiky and made of different materials that may be sensitive to who knows what. And the markers can come off too! A real nightmare if that happens...glue in place, etc.

 

I hope this helps in your first movement! I usually clean with special cleaning and rinsing fluids made for watches (and ultrasonic machines). Never use flamable stuff in the ultrasonic because of the heat generated!

 

That watch will come out beautifuly, are you replacing the crystal too?

 

Happy watchmaking,

 

Robert

 

PS. Is your balance wheel  wheel-up or down, I can't see it well. Normally it is recommended to place it wheel up so it doesn't get damaged. Never handle by the wheel proper. Careful with the pivots in everything but in particular with the escape wheel, pallet fork and balance wheel, in that order. It is also good to have #5 tweezers for the delicate or tiniest parts...and one bronze one too.

 

Also, I find #2 more to the task than #1 but it is just me who also leans more towards the #5 even better. (most people are happy with the #2 mainly) but it is a personal preference. What is important is to maintain the tips properly and for that you will need some sort of abrasive stone (I use a small GMT diamond file).

Edited September 23, 2014 by bobm12

[bobm12]

Oh, I see the center wheel, the canon pinion should be on the other side! I need new glasses! Yes, you just pull it with your tweezers!

 

The barrel needs inspection/servicing. Which means opening it! Check out Mark's videos for mechanical watch servicing. It shows how to handle the main spring. If not done right parts and spring can go where no man has gone before.

 

Nice job!

Edited September 23, 2014 by bobm12

[Lawson]

Hey Colin,

 

The tool I use and recommend is this one...

 

 

They are on Fleabay all the time and quite cheap.

 

Also, well done on your first strip-down mate ... enjoy the experience and post heaps of pics!!  :woohoo-jumping-smiley-emoticon: 

Edited September 23, 2014 by Lawson

[Lawson]

One more thing too Colin I forgot to mention...

 

Get yourself a few of these too mate:

 

Plastic Watch Parts Container With Dust Cover

 

They are very cheap and an invaluable piece of kit.

As soon as you remove a part it should be place immediately into one of these ... it will save you HEAPS of lost part issues, as well as protecting your cleaned parts.

[colinh]

Thanks guys,

 

I actually have the #2 and #5 tweezers, they're just off the shot. So is that exact parts container :) — I just wanted to lay the pieces out in the order I took them off, for photographing.

 

The cannon pinion came off just fine using the tweezers. Thanks for the encouragement. Although I'll keep my eyes open for an ebay tool...

 

I've seen the video where Mark disassembles the barrel—those videos are what inspired me to have a go :)

 

The ultrasonic cleaning is going fine (so far). I've just done the case and really big pieces. That cleaning solution is wonderful—that's chemistry for you, I suppose...

[colinh]

I got my oils today (with a free Bergeon oiler! Merci KalyaneDiffusion89 :-)

I photographed everything again, before cleaning. The dial side has 7 screws, 5 different types!

 

I cleaned the keyless works, barrel and spring and one bridge separately because they were filthy, so they and the dial and case etc aren't pictured.

 

I guess the jewels in the second picture, bottom row, left of centre, don't look too healthy? :(

 

I tried gently blowing away some of the embarassing dust (top photo), with the blower of course, and suceeded in getting one of those little screws to fly off to oblivion again... Luckily, I had a big magnet (so I still haven't managed to lose anything). Tomorrow I'm getting the biggest and strongest magnet I can find :)

 

Assembly to start sometime during the night. Maybe.

 

 

 

 

 

[noirrac1j]

Holy Cannoli Colin! It looks like the watch exploded! I wouldn't be able to keep track of all the parts during my first tear-down if I had not out everything in a multi-compartment box in the order I removed them. I just posted on a BFG 866 I managed to out back together and it is very happily ticking away and keeping time. You sure do have some nice tweezers and screwdrivers there buddy...mine are from J Borel, but are still on the cheapo side. Hey did you get a pic of the watch before you took it apart? I found it super helpful to take pics along the way so that when I have to go to work and school I can come back and review the steps. It really helped me to have the visual reference. Oh and by the way, I left my cannon pinion in place rather than risk bending, breaking, or accidentally losing it.

JC

[colinh]

:-)

 

There was actually method to my madness. The parts are in sort of chronological order, top-left to bottom-right.

 

And yes, I took photos. Just not very good ones, unfortunately.

 

But the first real problem I've come up against is that the shellac (?) holding the pallet stones is disintegrating. :(

[bobm12]

Not good that shellac problem, colin.

 

What did you use to clean those jewels with? I believe that anything with alcohol (butanol, etc) will disolve the shellac. Also if I remember well ammonia would do too, don't quote me on that one since I don't really remember. I probably don't use the same cleaning chemicals you are using at this moment. That's to say, I haven't had any problems with shellac so far. There are some posts in this forum that refer to jewels and shellac I would recommend. Just do a search, it is well worth it.

 

And good job on that watch, you are getting there!

Edited September 25, 2014 by bobm12

[colinh]

I didn't take as many nice photos as Phil in his Hevetia thread. Next time I'll try and do better :)

 

I finally put everything(*) back together this morning, and the watch runs, so that's sort of a success.

 

I seem to have lost a balance end stone though :( so it only runs when it's lying on its back, dial up. And I messed up the pallet a bit, so it's probably not keeping wonderfull time.

 

But apart from those little niggles I sort of managed, and some valuable lessons have been learnt. I'm astonished to find one can still order parts for this movement (from Cousins), but it's not really worth it.

 

Next I'll try a Mühle watch:

 

 

which is a proper watch, with an ETA 2824-2 movement, so if I break/lose anything I'll have to order replacements :)

[noirrac1j]

Hey Colin congratulations even if it didn't go completely perfect. So this was your first watch as a child and also the first watch you've done an overhaul on? Wow I wish I had my first watch--I think it was a Fred Flintstone watch. That Mühle watch looks like it could easily become overwhelming with that automatic rotor and calendar to complicate things. Good luck!

 

I just did another BFG 866 and have discovered I actually didn't pay attention to three little screws that hold the calendar plate done. Turns out they are different sizes, but I didn't pay attention to  where each specific screw goes and the watch stopped cold when it was supposed to turn over--the incorrect screw had blocked the wheel. I looked all over for help with figuring out the screwing problem and came across http://17jewels.info/en/movement, which is a great resource for these kooky-type movements. I also discovered I had put the spring lever in backwards! Now I learned that screws are not created equal even when they appear identical! In any case, I remedied the situation and have the two movements on observation: one working properly (Yeah!) and the other still getting hung up on the 55th minute mark. Oh well. Thanks for sharing!

 

JC

[Geo]

Well done Colin for getting it back together and running, albeit with a couple of issues.

The Muhle that you are about to service is a cracking looking watch with a very nice movement. May I suggest that you pick up another inexpensive movement or watch and overhaul it before staring on the Muhle. Once you have completely serviced a watch and been totaly successful, then service the Muhle.

[Lawson]

Good stuff Colin, and I'm glad you didn't give up when you lost a few parts ... you stuck with it and learned a great deal. :woohoo-jumping-smiley-emoticon:

I bet you can already see an improvement in your tweezer skills, and now you know the parts to be especially careful with. 

 

As many of the old hands here have said in previous posts, most of their first attempts didn't even run at the end, and now they are skilled watch repairs, it's just a matter of time, patience and determination :)

 

Look forward to seeing your next adventure into this great hobby!!

[WillFly]

Well done, Colin - I'm very impressed. Sorry to hear about the pallet stones, which have to be reset. Alcohol - great for the watch repairer - bad for the pallet fork! :crazysmile:

[Andyclient]

Well done Colin , great first attempt , I to have learnt the hard way that shellac doesn't like alcohol , after retrieving the pallet fork and the balance from the ultrasonic there were 3 little pink stones sitting on the bottom of the alcohol filled jar .

Still that is what this hobby is all about , it's a great learning curve.

Keep up the good work

cheers

Andy

[colinh]

Hey Colin congratulations even if it didn't go completely perfect. So this was your first watch as a child and also the first watch you've done an overhaul on? Wow I wish I had my first watch--I think it was a Fred Flintstone watch. That Mühle watch looks like it could easily become overwhelming with that automatic rotor and calendar to complicate things. Good luck!

 

I just did another BFG 866 and have discovered I actually didn't pay attention to three little screws that hold the calendar plate done. Turns out they are different sizes, but I didn't pay attention to  where each specific screw goes and the watch stopped cold when it was supposed to turn over--the incorrect screw had blocked the wheel. I looked all over for help with figuring out the screwing problem and came across http://17jewels.info/en/movement, which is a great resource for these kooky-type movements. I also discovered I had put the spring lever in backwards! Now I learned that screws are not created equal even when they appear identical! In any case, I remedied the situation and have the two movements on observation: one working properly (Yeah!) and the other still getting hung up on the 55th minute mark. Oh well. Thanks for sharing!

 

JC

 

Thanks, JC. Yup! My first ever watch. I feel a bit guilty about leaving it in this state, and I really shouldn't refer to my other watches as proper ones. This one's a real 17 jewel one too. Although one can tell that the parts weren't individually crafted with much love. (I'm in for a shock when I eventually attack my ETA and Lemania movements, aren't I? :) )

 

I'm quite pleased at how one can get at the technical docs for watches. It gives one  fighting chance at least...

 

Well done Colin for getting it back together and running, albeit with a couple of issues.

The Muhle that you are about to service is a cracking looking watch with a very nice movement. May I suggest that you pick up another inexpensive movement or watch and overhaul it before staring on the Muhle. Once you have completely serviced a watch and been totaly successful, then service the Muhle.

 

I was thinking, during the night, that a wise man would practice a bit more first too. After all, I imagine a complete watchmaker's training involves more than taking a watch apart, breaking and oiling it a bit, and putting it back together again...

 

Good stuff Colin, and I'm glad you didn't give up when you lost a few parts ... you stuck with it and learned a great deal. :woohoo-jumping-smiley-emoticon:

I bet you can already see an improvement in your tweezer skills, and now you know the parts to be especially careful with. 

 

As many of the old hands here have said in previous posts, most of their first attempts didn't even run at the end, and now they are skilled watch repairs, it's just a matter of time, patience and determination :)

 

Look forward to seeing your next adventure into this great hobby!!

 

Thanks. I think I'll take this one apart again, and see if I can put it back together without docs or photos. Naming each part. Although I am impatient to get started giving my expensive watches their long overdue services...

 

Well done, Colin - I'm very impressed. Sorry to hear about the pallet stones, which have to be reset. Alcohol - great for the watch repairer - bad for the pallet fork! :crazysmile:

 

Is watches dunked in alcohol a common problem that watch repairers have to deal with? :)  Mark?

 

Well done Colin , great first attempt , I to have learnt the hard way that shellac doesn't like alcohol , after retrieving the pallet fork and the balance from the ultrasonic there were 3 little pink stones sitting on the bottom of the alcohol filled jar .

Still that is what this hobby is all about , it's a great learning curve.

Keep up the good work

cheers

Andy

 

Yeah. What's odd is that I sort of knew about shellac and alcohol. But I sort of remember reading that the cleaning fluid was specifically ok. Perhaps I read that with respect to a different fluid :)

Edited September 29, 2014 by colinh