Elgin PW stops when turned over

[Lc130]

I'm just learning the very basics at this point.  I've picked up an Elgin grade 345, 12s PW on ebay.   Here's more info: https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/elgin/20602697/movement.  

I was able to disassemble, clean in naptha with an alchohol rinse and reassemble.  I didn't oil it as I'm just starting out and just recently ordered oil.  

Before the clean, it would only run for less than 10 seconds.  Seems to run happily now until I turn it upside down and it stops.  I noticed that the third wheel upper jewel is cracked.  I didn't remove the screwed in jewels for cleaning.  Should I have?  I just cleaned them whilst in the plate. 

Is this a balance problem?  I didn't take the balance assembly apart as I suspect, it this novice level,  I'd ruin it.  Does anyone have troubleshooting advice?  A pic is attached.

I appreciate your experience!

Charlie

 

 

[Emil]

Hi Lc130,

It is hard to tell from just the one picture but It looks like you most likely have a broken balance staff. I would suggest checking that there is not any movement vertically and horizontally of the balance. The cracked jewel could also be a big factor that could stop the watch as it could cause the wheel tooth engagement to not be correct. I suggest taking the balance out and being extremely mindful of the very delicate pivots while doing so. Check that they are not bent, mushroomed, or broken off completely!

Good luck! Let me know if you have any more questions, I would be happy to help. And don't forget that stuff gets broken along the way. Good thing this isn't a hugely valuable or rare piece!

Cheers,

-Emil

[clockboy]

The cracked jewel should be replaced anyway even if it is not the fault. Normally when you have a large positional error/fault the hairspring and balance areas are where to look.

[Lc130]

There doesn't appear to be any excessive play in the balance.  Below is a not-too-clear pic of one end of the staff.  I can't get a pic of the other end without disassembly but it looks the same. 

It appears that if I loosen that microscopic screw highlighted at the top, that the wedge directly below will come out.  The wedge looks to hold the the other end of the spring.  Does this seem correct.  I could then get a better look at it.  

How does one get a new staff or jewels for this?

Many thanks!

Charlie

 

 

[clockboy]

Yes thats how the hairspring stud is removed once the regulator boot has been turned as well. Looking at your pics the top jewel looks very dirty, has it been cleaned. With a lot of vintage watches that have not been serviced the jewels get incrusted with old oil/dust etc. and they need a good soak in a de-greaser then cleaning. If the jewel is clean and the balance is good with no end shake then check for end shake of the wheels & barrel assembly.