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Fix For Balance Wheel And Spring

bobm12

By bobm12
in Watch Repairs Help & Advice

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bobm12 Distinguished Member

bobm12

Posted
Posted

Hi everyone,

 

I took a preliminary view of this movement ( looks like someone was using it to dig a trench) and I noticed the balance wheel and spring have come apart. This may be may first opportunity to fix a hair spring. Only I don't know where to start.

 

post-253-0-15054900-1404937362_thumb.jpg

 

It is hard to see, but the end of the hair spring is attached so what appear to be part of the balance cock which has in turn become loose. I can't figure out how that spring came to be on top of the balance cock and where to affix that end (looks like a ring).

 

Any help will be greatly appreciated and I thank you in advance.

Geo Distinguished Member

Geo

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hi Robert, you really have a tricky problem here, so here's my take on it.

It looks like a Seiko movement,and the part that is free (for setting the beat) should be underneath the regulator.

There should be a small screw securing the hairspring stud to the piece that is loose. Slacken this screw and remove the part from the hairspring.

Remove the remaining parts of the balance assembly in the normal way and pin it upside down on a piece of cork to make it easier to work on.

Turn the movable guide pin on the regulator to allow the hairspring and balance to be removed from the cock. Place the balance out of the way to be worked on later.

Now assemble the balance cock assembly correctly with the regulator on top of the beat adjuster.

It's now time to sort out the hairspring. It should be perfectly concentric with the balance staff and flat and parallel to the balance wheel. If not, then here comes the hard bit. You will have to stroke it very very gently to get the desired shape. I used two pairs of fine tweezers for doing this. Be careful not to twist the spring in the process, or it will not slide smoothly through the guide pins. If you are lucky you may manage this with the hairspring still attached to the balance staff, if not, remove it having first noted the position it is fitted relative to the roller jewel. ALL OF THE ABOVE IS VERY DIFFICULT AND YOU MAY END UP TOTALY DESTROYING THE HAIRSPRING.

If successful, reassemble and let the timing begin. You will have to adjust the beat first then regulate it.

Have fun!

Edited by Geo
bobm12 Distinguished Member

bobm12

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Excellent instructions Geo, I appreciate your help. I'll do exactly as you say. This is some sort of Seiko clone I got in a batch of movements "for training purposes". If I screw up it is no big deal although I would prefer not to. Somehow I get attached to those poor, mistreated movements regardless of pedigree!  :nurse:  I can easily tell you, this one never had a gold case for sure!

 

In any case, I'll get back with any developments (I'll be working on it in the morning)!

Geo Distinguished Member

Geo

Posted
Posted

If that is a clone, could the the beat adjuster possibly be mounted on top of the regulator? I' sure it will be clear how it goes when you study it with a lupe.

I meant to say that when pinning it to the piece of cork, I use a small screwdriver through the screw hole in the balance cock.

:-)

bobm12 Distinguished Member

bobm12

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Hi Geo, I did part of the job but had to interrupt it for other matters. The balance is free and the spring is as fine as possible (I had to play with it but in the end I managed to leave it in almost pristine shape). That's what took so long.

 

Absolutely, the beat adjuster does go on top of the regulator as you rightly guessed, I just have to find a way to attach it there my guru friend! ("looking around my work bench and figuring what to use, mental inventory: hammer, chisel, metal saw,.... too big, tiny watch screwdrivers... I guess not, rodico, super-glue...ok back to that later...no pinning stuff in my **BLEEP**nal yet, 'will have to improvise!") :phew:

 

I will assemble the whole thing either tomorrow morning or tonight when I get home from work. Then it will be time for full disassembly of the movement, prep for cleaning, ultrasonic bath, x20 inspection and if everything checks, reassembly and testing. Thanks for your help, I'll keep you posted of new developments and post a picture of the wheel and cock complete.

 

Robert

chriseames168 WRT Addict

chriseames168

Posted
Posted

Hi again I got a problem with a air spring,the air spring has broken in two just past the regulator part,so balance wheel no longer on spring,can I repair this on my bravingtons watch or can I get a new spring to put in the watch,hope any one can help

Geo Distinguished Member

Geo

Posted
Posted

Hi again I got a problem with a air spring,the air spring has broken in two just past the regulator part,so balance wheel no longer on spring,can I repair this on my bravingtons watch or can I get a new spring to put in the watch,hope any one can help

Repairing the spring is not an option, you will have to fit, or have fitted a new hairspring.

Geo Distinguished Member

Geo

Posted
Posted

Hi Christopher, if you have good experience taking watches apart and servicing them, then you may be ready to progress to the highly delicate job of fitting a hairspring, if not I suggest that you take it to a professional watch repairer to have it replace.

Could take a high definition picture of the movement, to allow identification of the movement. Bravingtons used movements from different manufactures in their watches. This is required to see if a hairspring is available.

bobm12 Distinguished Member

bobm12

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Hi chriseames168, when the movement is identified -- just as Geo said -- and if you are in the US -- or want to try this option --, otto frei has all sort of hairsprings to be fitted. You only need certain specs (regarding the wire dimensions, as listed in his page) to have the right one sent. Once you get it, you can fit it, which might involve some cutting to size and "fabricating" the proper dog leg, etc. Alternatively, he may have a complete balance/hairspring assembly available...I recently ordered one (without the cock) for an eta 2801-2. It is a little pricey that way but most of the work is already done for you, specially if you don't have the right tools or the experience in that kind of job.

bobm12 Distinguished Member

bobm12

Posted
  • Author
Posted

An update about the original thread:

 

I was able to re-attach the actual parts to the cock. They are held in place by a U-clip that attaches to the lower jewel housing. This housing has a lip all around that holds down both parts of the regulator (rings, one of them loose originally). My solution -- thanks Geo for valuable instructions -- was to "think inverted", i.e. upon disassembly, I set up first the jewel assembly, upside down, on the bench, on top the two regulator parts and finally the cock upside down. Holding/pressing down with tweezers the jewel housing protrudes from the cock enough to insert the clip back in place. Now with the whole thing re-assembled is time to re-attach the hair spring. Pictures will be coming soon....to be continued.

Geo Distinguished Member

Geo

Posted
Posted

An update about the original thread:

 

I was able to re-attach the actual parts to the cock.

Good work Robert, I look forward to seeing the end product!
bobm12 Distinguished Member

bobm12

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Thank you Geo, I've been working on this on and off since it requires lots of time and patience. On the other hand, I was looking at this bunch of movements (Seiko like, not Seiko) and they have a different shock protection system (as in the original picture in this thread). I don't know if I ever said that I lost the bottom part of a 7S26 diashock assembly, the one on the main plate. Maybe much later when I'm done with the "hairspring movement" I'll "transplant" one of these easy to work on shock systems  to the 7S26 plate and see if it works...OK this is work in progress for now but I'll post the results in time.

 

(This is hilarious, I was trying to edit and clicked in the "like it" button!! ooops!

Edited by bobm12
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Geo Distinguished Member

Geo

Posted
Posted

Hi again I got a problem with a air spring,the air spring has broken in two just past the regulator part,so balance wheel no longer on spring,can I repair this on my bravingtons watch or can I get a new spring to put in the watch,hope any one can help

I've managed to ascertain that the movement in your watch is an ETA 1256. I would suggest that you buy a movement with a good balance wheel and hairspring on EBay. Here is a photo of the movement, maybe someone on the forum has one lying around and can help you.

post-124-0-53011000-1405374163_thumb.jpg

bobm12 Distinguished Member

bobm12

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Hi Geo, is your middle name Sherlock by any chance? :thumbsu:  I think I have a "practice" movement that came with the same/similar automatic system but is not ETA. Some sort of clone (of something). The balance is shot so it is useless even if it ever fits, sorry (I would have donated it for a good cause if at all usable).

Geo Distinguished Member

Geo

Posted
Posted

Hi Geo, is your middle name Sherlock by any chance? :thumbsu: 

I wish!

Christopher could not manage to post pictures so he emailed them to me and asked if I could help. The resolution was low but there was enough information for me to guess the calibre number. I then found a hi resolution photo on the net and used that. Being ETA it has been used in many high end watches, so picking up a movement on EBay is a good option. The movement dates from between 1950 & 1954.

anilv Distinguished Member

anilv

Posted
Posted

this is confusing.. first we're talking about a seiko and then an ETA1256?

 

Anyway.. the ETA is one of my favourites...

 

1.it was the first autowind by ETA ..

 

2.On most of the ones I've seen the automodule screws are labelled 'A' with instructions on the rotor to 'remove 'a''. I can imagine back in the day when auto's where 'new-fangled' and watchmakers had to be guided thru this amazing new technology.

 

3.The dial feet are symetrical.. it is possible to make a 'left-handed' watch for your lefty friends.!!

 

Anil

Geo Distinguished Member

Geo

Posted
Posted

this is confusing.. first we're talking about a seiko and then an ETA1256?

 

Hi Anil.

The confusion was caused by Christopher coming in with hairspring questions not related to the original post by Robert!

bobm12 Distinguished Member

bobm12

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Here is an update of the work involved, after this step we will re-attach the balance and spring. Notice that the outermost part of the regulator is where the hairspring is attached. So basically we are thinking inverted since the cock is upside down for assembly. More to come... 

post-253-0-75722300-1405776361_thumb.jpg

post-253-0-06983700-1405776397_thumb.jpg

bobm12 Distinguished Member

bobm12

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Oh, I've been having "fun" with this movement ever since I started fixing it,

 

First, I lost the camera SD ship to take more pictures, but I "passed" that step (I reassembled it)

Then the SD ship re-appeared and I disassembled the whole thing to take the pictures above.

Then and just after that final picture, I lost the clip! It just jumped into nowhere.

Now we need to wait until I lose another part and in substitution the clip reappears!

Edited by bobm12
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