Movement advice ... and possible identification

[WatchMaker]

I really like the movement shown in the attached pictures with the separate milled bridges and was hoping to use it in a watch I'm going to make..

I thought the non-running would be limited to the balance spring which was clearly not right when I got it but I've also noticed a  fractured jewel on the pallet fork bridge. I've only started out in the world of watch repair as a hobby and I only have a relatively basic toolkit so not up to jewel replacement.

i guess my questions are ... is this movement worth persevering with or is it pretty run of the mill and I'd be better off putting my efforts elsewhere? Does anyone know the make/model?The movement has a fern(?) leaf on and I've spotted the number 931 scratched onto the reverse of the main train bridge; it is 25.3mm wide.. I've tried a good look through ranfft but couldn't find something that looked the same.

Thanks.

[StuartBaker104]

Beats me - I have no idea what this is, but I can tell you 3 things:

1. The number scratched under the train bridge is the last 3 digits of the movement serial number

2. Finding a jewel will be a significant challenge.  That said, unless the jewel is really mangled, I would still expect it to run, just with a low amplitude if that is all that is wrong with it.

3. This movement is probably 80 to 100 years old.  If you are going to build your own watch, I would advise using a movement that you can get parts for rather than one which is going to be very hard to repair if it breaks.

[SSTEEL]

Molnija?

[szbalogh]

E. Grosjean-Droz

Gehäuse, Taschenuhren, Zifferblätter, Uhrwerke; La Chaux-de-Fonds, Schweiz; registriert am 6.3.1894

 

http://www.mikrolisk.de/show.php?site=280&suchwort=blatt&searchWhere=trademark&searchMode=exact&id=2#sucheMarker

If there is one cracked jewel one should "search" for others as well. Chech the dial side jewels! Also check all pivots. If a watch fell down either the jewel and/or the pivot breaks.

Check also for other marks under all bricdge. It is a great chance that it is an ebauche make of another factory.

I agree with StuartBaker104 that the broken jewel may handle the fork. There are different grades of breakage. If the edges touching the pivot are sharp, then dont use it, maybe check for a short time if othervise the watch works. If there are no sharp edges, the it will "only" slowly grind the pallet fork pivot. On the other hand, the pallet fork is not turning in that jewel.

[oldhippy]

Someone with the Bestfit catalog would be able to I D this movement. Any volunteers?

[StuartBaker104]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

Someone with the Bestfit catalog would be able to I D this movement. Any volunteers?

I thought that too, and I looked at the online version at Ernst Westphal, but I couldn't find it.  Have had that problem with very old movements.  I also found the Mikrolisk link which was posted above, but decided it wasn't quite the same logo... then I decided I should spend less time on the internet and more time playing with my watches!

[WatchMaker]

You guys are great - thanks for all the helpful comments from the four of you.

StuartBaker104 ... LOL I just didn't tie up the last three digits of the serial number; nice spot. And thanks for the advice that I'm probably embarking on something a little challenging in terms of parts as well as taking the time to investigate what this movement might be.

szbalogh ... wow! I think that's it! Brilliant! And mikrolisk looks like a great resource for identification going forwards should I have issues with other movements; thank you.

The jewel situation I'm faced with is that in the first picture if you look closely enough i.e. half a jewel; so yes the sharp edges / mangled option is probably where I'm at. 

I spent a while with this movement in stripping and cleaning it but I think from the comments made I'm better off cutting my losses and not trying to get it into a working order. I've also learnt a valuable lesson of checking every component carefully as I disassemble, and before I reassemble, rather than cleaning and putting everything back together diligently in a logical order until I get to something not working properly and then see what is a rather glaring issue. Hindsight eh?!

[szbalogh]

40 minutes ago, WatchMaker said:

I spent a while with this movement in stripping and cleaning it but I think from the comments made I'm better off cutting my losses and not trying to get it into a working order.

As i understand the movement has only that broken jewel problem. Look here:

This one had many many problems. It was an ideal piece to learn jewel replacement, repivoting, changing a gear on center arbor and changing impulse jewel..... 

From here it seems that it has rubbed-in jewels. If so, You can repair it easily. Just push out the broken one and make a brass jewel. It will do the job until You find a ruby one.

[WatchMaker]

Thanks szbalogh; that's very interesting.

I think you've helped confirm that with these kind of unknowns and a movement that can't be identified let alone get spares for I'm better off concentrating efforts on something a little more straightforward!