Looking For Help With A Fusee

[dalarry]

hi everyone,

my name is Todd.

i am a reasonably skilled amateur, with focus on american made pocket watches.

i am capable of doing COA's and troubleshooting of this watches at a pretty good amateur level. 

i love these beautiful little machines and have an extensive collection.

so, here is my the problem.

i have had an old beat up british made fusee sitting in a box for five years.

it was given to me by a neighbour who lives near me.

it is a pair case(black patina), flawless dial(dirty), no hands. no crystal. but the movement looks complete.

except having no chain.

hallmarks indicate it was made in london 1805.

it is starting to mock me sitting on its shelf.

i have bought books and done research.

looking for a mentor to walk me through fixing and restoring this work of art.

i have not touched it up to this point for fear of damaging it. been waiting to develop the skills to tackle it.

i think i am there, but need help and advice.

anyone have the knowledge about these watches?

i apologize if my grammar is not very great as i am french. english is my second language.

thank you 

todd

 

 

 

[jdm]

Any picture?

[dalarry]

we are away for a few days. VALENTINES WEEKEND!

31 years together and still not bored.

will post some pictures when we get home

Todd

[canthus]

Hi Todd, welcome to a great forum. 

 

I have some pics of dismantled English fusee watch dated about 1835, so if you need help let me know.

 

If you can get hold of the book below it is excellent and covers all aspects of restoration, maintenance and repair including fusee.

 

THE POCKET WATCH by Christopher Barron   ISBN 978-0-7198-0370-3

[Geo]

I have a feeling that this watch will have a verge escapement given its age.

[dalarry]

thank you for the welcome Canthus, i will definitely take you up on your offer.

yes Geo it is a verge escapement.

i gently poked around in it with a piece of pegwood a couple of years ago.

seems like whatever was used for oil in the past has turned to glue.

everything except the balance is stiff, doesn't want to move.

the balance moves pretty nicely.

getting a little excited about jumping into this watch.

gotta be careful about that at my age.

will post some pics when i get home next week.

Edited February 13, 2016 by dalarry

[Geo]

Please take lots of pictures when you do the service, I for one would love to see a documented walkthrough.

[mwilkes]

I recommend picking up Archie Perkins's "Antique Watch Restoration" vols 1&2 - it's expensive, but it's probably just what you need. The book starts with a strip down and overhaul of a verge/fusee watch, and it goes into detail about fusee chain repair and how to pre-load the mainspring. I bought it last week - it's a good read!

[dalarry]

hi everyone,

todd here,

sorry it took me so long to post the promised pics, but retirement is not all it is cracked up to be.

i have less free time than i did when i was working!

anyway, enough complaining.

I attach a pic of the front face of the watch.

not pretty, but i think it can be cleaned.

[dalarry]

these are the hall marks,

i'm no expert on silver but i am reasonably sure these marks indicate london, 1805.

 

[dalarry]

the movement itself is absolutely filthy.

i know this watch is of little commercial value.

je connais ca

i do not care about its value.

i just would like to bring it back to life.

any help would be appreciated.

 

 

[dalarry]

i intend to start taking this old beauty apart tomorrow.

for day 1 i want to get the movement out of the case and remove the balance cock and balance assembly.

any advice or cautions would be appreciated.

Todd

[oldhippy]

If you don't have the fusee chain you are going to have a lot of trouble fixing it. For starters you have to have the right length and the right height and width for it to sit in the cone. A pro watchmaker would be able to shorten or lengthen the chain but it isn't easy, you will need a good staking tool for starters.  

[dalarry]

hi old hippie,

i have been looking on epray and see that chains are available. i am hoping that once i know the size i need i can find one that is too long and shorten it.

i do have a good staking set and am careful and patient in my endeavors.

one question i do have is how will i measure my chain length needed?

for length can i wrap the cone with a string, then over to the mainspring barrel?

thickness is pretty straight forward, just measure the channels on the cone.

 

i got lucky and found the exact right size crystal for it.

ordered it right away as it was a one of and figured what are the odds of finding the exactly right size again.

let me know what you think of it as a replacement. i think it is period correct.

 

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/272132303301?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

going to start taking it apart now.

will take lots of pictures

thanks for your help

i really appreciate it

todd

Edited February 22, 2016 by dalarry

[oldhippy]

That's right with the string wrap it around the cone and measure the distance from the cone to the mainspring and add a little, you don't want too much around the mainspring barrel if the cone is full. 

 

I don't know if you fully understand working with such a small chain and removing the rivets and replacing, if you don't do it right the chain will brake apart and split the outer sides of the chain, it also has to be very free at the same time in order to wrap around the cone and barrel, you also might need to open the slot or hole to fit the end to the barrel, the other end should just hook to  a small pin. Do you know if the verge is in good condition and what about the staff and hairspring. Don't expect to get to much of a swing with the balance because they were never made to go like modern balances you get today. The glass I would thing the original would have been a bulls eye, very thick with extra magnification in the center.          

[dalarry]

at this time i have no idea how it looks inside.

i have never taken it apart out of fear of damaging it.

right now nothing moves, i think the old oil has turned to glue.

i've done a lot of research and read a lot of books getting ready for this.

i intend to take it apart VERY slowly and carefully over the next week.

i don't want to make a mistake as i am sure parts are non-existant.

i only spend about an hour a day at my workbench as this is only a hobby and any more than that and it stops being fun.

will send pics as i progress

thanks again

Todd

Edited February 22, 2016 by dalarry

[dalarry]

hi everyone, todd here.

it looks as though taking this old beauty apart without destroying it is going to be a difficult job.

i can't get the pins out that hold the dial on. there is almost nothing to grab onto facing out.

so that will have to wait until i have the movement apart so i can get at the pins from the other side.

i managed to get the balance cock off with great difficulty. it felt like it was glued on.

the staff and hairspring are now out and look to be in surprisingly good condition.

the pivots look good as well do the pallets .

the verge looks good to me, attaching a pic.

what has me baffled is the black\brown crap that is all over the dial and movement.

it is not tarnish or dirt of the type i have encountered in past.

it has a texture. there are even hairs trapped in it on the dial.

could it be some kind of wax or polish someone applied in the past?

perhaps to dissuade tarnishing?

i have tried water on it with a q-tip and tried a bit of L&R cleaner to no effect.

did nothing.

any ideas?

enough for today, i started at noon planning to spend an hour on it and it is now 6:30

tomorrow is another day.

at least my hobby is not boring.

thanks to everyone for your help, i really appreciate it.

Todd

[Geo]

I have had great results cleaning enamel dials using household bleach on a cotton bud.

Here's a picture of the last enamel dual I cleaned that way. I wish I had a before picture as the result was quite dramatic.