Repairing An Omega Self Winding Watch (Bumper)

[Vich]

Thanks to Christian Dannemann (WatchGuy site) for making this original document available.  I do not recall seeing it here but apologies if this duplicates a previous posting.

 

Repairing-Omega-self-winding-watches-bumper.pdf

 

Cheers,

 

Vic

[bobm12]

Thank you Vic! Nice document!

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[StuartBaker104]

Thanks Vic, now I need to buy a cal 354 to add to my collection. This is entirely your fault, and I really need to not buy any more watches for a bit till I've dealt with the ones I already have.

Also, this must be the only time I have ever seen a recommendation to lubricate gear wheel teeth in a watch. Anyone know of any other auto mechanisms where this is recommended?

S

[Vich]

I particularly like the way they use Moebius No1 Chronometer oil is used all over the place, it crops up on PDFs for othe old Omegas as well - I think it may be the 9010 they refer to as the Synt a lube but I wonder what the "Moebius No1 Chronometer oil" actually was - anyone know ? or is best guess time ?

 

I have started putting an old Omega Bumper together but had to detour to re-lume the hands.  All the bits are cleaned and the barrel is back together after a lube with more conventional Moebius stuff and the PDF above came in handy.  I may post some pics if I don't get too absorbed in it.

 

Cheers,

 

Vic

[StuartBaker104]

Vic,

Reference to chronometer oil no. 1 also appears here http://watchguy.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Omega-540.pdfwhere it's recommended for barrel arbor pivots, centre wheel, canon pinion and pallet stones. I guess therefore you'd be looking at 9020, HP 1000 or HP 1300 rather than 9010.

I keep promising myself that I'm going to make a table of all these comparisons one day. One day!

S

[Vich]

Thanks for the info Stuart, funny how there is not much to find on the Net for the actual No.1 Oil apart from the references in PDF's but given that the oils would have been out at the same time as the movements I suppose it would be hard to get a reference point.

 

Here is a pdf from Moebius Sales Dept.  It goes a long way towards making a simple soul like me want to pull his hair out but luckily I am baldy already.  All of these oils have different Characteristics which they indicate but I, as a tinkerer, will stick with Marks suggestions of about 5 oils and the Molycote DX as nothing has gone radically wrong for me so far.  Probably because I am so tight i hardly put any on ! :D

 

Still it is quite interesting - it must have been put out before but here it is to save time.  (It is the self winding work that they say Moebius No 1 Chronometer oil or Synt-A-Lube)

 

moebius-specsbook.pdf

 

Cheers,

 

Vic

[bobm12]

These are the 2 oils with the name Synt-A-Lube, I've copied the information from ofrei...

Moebius Synt-A-Lube 9010

Moebius Synthetic Oil 9010 has been the standard general purpose oil in the watch industry for decades. Extremely resistant to deterioration, it does not thicken, or clog and it prevents gumming up. MOEBIUS 9010 Synt-A-Lube does not spread, and remains where it is applied for several years. Viscosity of 1.5 stokes at +20 degrees celsius ((viscosity 120 (mm2/sec), provides good lubrication until -29 degrees celsius. Range of temperature: -29 to +70 °C, Viscosity at 20 °C: 150 cSt Pour point: -40 °C, Density at 20 °C: 0,907. Moebius declares the 9010 product in conformity with ROHS and REACH initiatives.

The recommend shelf life of this product is 6 years.

 

Moebius Synt-A-Lube 9014

Thinner than 9010, comes in the 2 cc size bottle. Moebius 9014 is a mixure of 70% Moebius 9010 and 30% Moebius 9030, and used for lower temperatures. Viscosity of 0.98 stokes at +20 degrees celsius, provides good lubrication until -35 degrees celsius.

The recommend shelf life of this product is 6 years.

 

Maybe they are talking about 9014?

 

In any case, those are the only 2 synt-a-lubes I was able to find.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[Vich]

Thanks Bob,

9010 is one of my normal oils that Mark recommended ages ago in a posting on lubrication and I find it good to use. Pallet jewels, and escape wheel, balance staff, train wheels are covered by it and between that and D5 plus Molycote DX I cover a lot. I needed some other oil and grease for the Accutrons but generally I get by.

I think I will use 9010 on the self winding work and see how it goes.

Cheers,

Vic

[StuartBaker104]

Vic,

If you have D5 then that would likely be a closer match according to the BHI practical lubrication guide.

What oils have you bought for your accutrons? I have one of those in my to do queue at some point, and working out the equivalent oils was on my prep tasks.

S

[Vich]

Hello Stuart,

 

A lot of the Accutron PDFs refer to two major oils, OL207 which is now Moebius 8201 and OL219 which is now Moebius 9020.

 

Which model Accutron are you going to repair.

 

Cheers,

 

Vic

[StuartBaker104]

Thanks Vic,

That's perfect - I have a 218D, so those are the two I need.

I bought it as a non-runner as I fancied the challenge. It was missing the cell strap spacer and that was all I needed to get it running, but it has green gunk on some of the jewels and it now double steps, so still requires work. It's been on my bench for 6 months, and might have to stay there for the same again. Some of us have other day jobs!

I will have to work through the phasing without a test set, but I'm sure I can rig something up.

I do have another one which does run properly, so at least I have a reference point.

Thanks

S

[bobm12]

Hi guys, just for the record, the "direct" equivalent to D5 is HP1300 but I believe is more expensive. The trade off is that its shelf life is much greater than the D5. Check this out from ofrei's page:

 

Moebius 9104 Synthetic Oil Synt-HP 1300

Moebius Synt-HP 1300 is a high pressure oil with the viscosity of 1300. The excellent ageing stability ensures a constant viscosity over a long time. High pressure resistance as well as a superior lubricating and adherence capacity. For use on mechanical watches' where you normally would apply Moebius D-5 on the gear train, barrel-arbor, steel/steel frictions-partners; as well as for board instruments, micromotors, mini-ballbearings, etc.

The recommend shelf life of this product is 6 years.

 

Moebius Microgliss D-5

D-5 is a highly recommended thick oil which can be used on both mechanical and quartz movement.

The recommended shelf life of this product is 3 years. Modern ETA oil charts advise you to use when need a thick oil or grease either D5 or the New Moebius 9104 Synthetic Oil Synt-HP 1300.

 

So there you have it! Also to support Vic equivalences, here are the pictures of OL207 and OL219:  

  

Notice that the OL219 is described as Synta-Visco-Lube which is the same description as the 9020. Now, according to my searches.

 

 OL207, is described as "Special Lubricant with Molybdenum Disulfide", therefore D-5 or HP 1300.

[Vich]

Thanks Bob,

It was years ago when I first went looking for the equivalents. There is a guy called Mordenswatchrepair in the forum that had a query about 9104 taking over from D5. I am hanging on to my D5 until it's finished - only got it recently so I t still has about 2 years of life. The price on the 9104 for 20 ml is about 3 times that of D5. I grudgingly admit that the 9104 is probably better as it does the same job and has a longer shelf life being a Synthesized oil rather than so called Natural. You can get 2ml of 9104 for about £13.00.

Hope you get lucky with the 218, sounds like it needs a clean. Hope you have decent magnification, I can only manage with 70X mag. Out of interest are you using an accucell or a substitute as that could account for the double phasing. Either way trial and error sometimes works and the fact that it is humming means you have a better chance.

Cheers,

Vic

[bobm12]

Absolutely Vic, in my mind D5 should be fine, actually it is great. You are absolutely right, the 9104 is, as agreed, a better oil but, why pay so much more if the one on hand is good?! I actually am in the same boat, a full bottle of D5, no need to invest anymore.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[StuartBaker104]

Hi Vic

Yes, I have a standard 1.5v battery. I'll either get an accucell or fit a diode if it won't play ball. You've got me worried about the magnification. I knew that was arequirement for th 214s, but I thought it wasn't an issue for the 218. I've been on the lookout for a microscope for a while anyway, but haven't seen a bargain yet.

S

[Vich]

Hello Stuart,

 

The problem is that the index wheel on the 218 is 2.4mm in diameter but has 320 teeth each of which is 0.01mm high and 0.02mm wide.  You have to get the "draw" and placement correct for the index finger at the end of which you have a tiny 0.18 mm square Ruby that is 0.06mm thick.  To manually adjust the fingers you need to see what you are doing.  Touch the index wheel with a metal screwdriver or probe and it is probably knackered and is costly to replace.

 

The engineering behind the creation of these parts, bearing in mind when they were made, is what fascinates me. 

 

Unfortunately I am a bit short on the lamp oil already and need the stereo microscope, you may be able to manage better than I at smaller magnification.  If you are on the look out make sure you get one that gives a decent amount of working distance to get your hand and tools into yet still be able to see through the scope.  There is a whole topic on the forum about the one I got which Lee gave an excellent run down about.

 

Cheers,

 

Vic

[Geo]

Please keep this thread on the the title subject which is "Repairing An Omega Self Winding Watch (Bumper)". It has wondered way off topic. Thanks Geo!

[Vich]

No problem George, absolutely correct :thumbsu: ,

 

Stuart if you need any info just raise it on the Help and advice or Lounge and I will continue there.

 

Cheers,

 

Vic

[OmarHaltam]

Thanks guys for all the great info on the different oils!

[Vich]

One subject we never tire about on the forum is lubes [emoji6]

[Peixian]

thank you  Vich , Jan,that is a good topic that many people want to know