Seiko 7S36 Small Ordeal

[jdm]

I've got a brand new "Seiko 5 sports" with this movement. Placed it on the timing machine, and the picture (sorry, stupid me I didn't save it) was pretty bad... way too many beats off place, and poor general timing.

 

Thinking it should not have been a big deal (how wrong I was), I removed balance, balance stones gave these a washing. There was no oil at all on the jewels!

 

There the trouble started... my manual skills are still poor.. I've lost parts, and had a trouble placing them back again. There is still a lot of things that I still struggle with:

 

• Oiling stones - thin oil make very difficult to right size the amount of oil. And I'm afraid that too much oil goes between holed and then end stone, but too little reaches the staff.
• Oiling escapement teeth (two of them), With my equipment it's really impossible to see how much oil has been placed there. At least one can see when it has dropped on the plate and has to be cleaned off.
• Fitting diashock springs, especially if  from an hole in plate. An average of 2 or 3 minutes each time.
• Fitting pallet fork. It is difficult to fit in the lower stone first, and the rest too. I spend an average of 5 minutes trying each time, and even broke a staff in the process. Fortunately I was able to locate the stump to prevent it from doing more damage.
• Fitting balance and cock. I'm very, very far from Mark's videos where he just presents the thing and it starts spinning. I spend sometime 10 minutes fitting it.

Anyway after the first cleaning I wound it fully and it was very good on the machine! Not a single off beat and a straight line, it just needed a good regulation.

 

And then the gremlins started biting.. reinstalled dial and hands.. the machine shown it was running worse than before. No picture but the kind of ugly snow with crazy amplitude readings from 315' to 175, it would not even get the machine to syn on it. So I took it apart again, and again, each time was going even worse. In the process I've lost 2 springs, 3 end stones, and broke one pallet fork. Almost run out of part from donor movements. I was quite discouraged, but washed parts once again, put them back and got this (after regulation)

 

 

Even without understanding what I was doing wrong in the previous attemptsI was of course happy and fantasized having my "poor man fifty fathoms" all together again... that was not the case. Testing calendar found the day would change only occasionally. For a beginner like me it took a long time to find the reason. The hour wheel had a LOT of play and would not push the intermediate date wheel. And why it had play? Because the cannon pinion had play. And why that? Because the central wheel tube has broken.

the tube is still in the cannon pinion and will likely stay there.

 

I wonder if that has to do with the strange timing issue that came and go?

 

Not bad for a brand new watch. So I have to take it ALL apart :) will do tomorrow with the day light, which helps a lot. 

Edited December 23, 2015 by jdm

[Geo]

I feel for you JDM, but I'm sure you will get there in the end.

[Blacklab]

The only way you will ever learn to do anything is by doing time & time again. Trust me, it gets easier & you will get results in the end. Just stick in there.

[bobm12]

Be strong and persevere, JDM! Never quit! That's what my dad taught me and that's the reason he never quit smoking! :)

 

In any case, after consulting my crystal ball I foresee a new center wheel and new cannon pinion coming your way by means of a purchase: it gets fuzzy here, maybe from cousinsUK or from ebay via donor movement! I don't know, I think I may have to replace that crystal ball it always gets fuzzy in the interesting part of the story. :)

 

Here is some useful info:

 

http://www.watchrepairtalk.com/links/goto/12-boley/

 

Whole movement from cousinsUK - code 7S36M = 32.75 pounds

 

 

Seiko 7S36C - Technical Guide.pdf

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

 

[jdm]

Thanks for the encouragement. No, the cousins will get no money from me this Christmas, I have plenty of parts.

Truly disappointed by Seiko this time. They put no oil where it was needed, but left a lot of dirt around.

 

Getting there...

 

 

[jdm]

Did I said I had a lot parts? Sure.. for versions A and B perhaps... but this is C, the center wheel is quite different,.. pinion has 16 teeth not 12 to begin with ... and P/N 224183 doesn't turn up in the usual places... I'll see what the cousins will say.. I feel like an upgrade to NH36 is in the cards.

 

Happy Xmas everyone  :)

[ramrod]

your list of things to work on looks a lot like mine. especially the one about the balance. it takes a few tries from me - and then it doesn't start on it's own. sometimes maybe it won't start at all!

keep at it. one of these times you'll surprise yourself and it'll be like riding a bike.

[Men]

And regarding these 7S26 7S36.... Once and a while the balance spring jumps during shipping under the regulator pin creating a horror picture on your timegrapher. Just putting it back solves it in 99 of the 100 times in a brand new Seiko.

[jdm]

I'm getting no love from this. I was happy because someone in Japan was curios to know how his watch was made (which I can understand), so I bought this for cheap:

 

Took the needed central wheel, put thingies together, but i was't happy with amplitude of about 225 deg. In hindsight I should have carried on! Started struggling with balance stones lubrication... found that too much actually reduces amplitude, and there is no safe guaranteed way to put a drop of oil on the flat side (which has to be determined first) of the cap jewel and then bring it to the chaton.

Then on the 2nd or 3rd balance reassembly the tail of HS slipped off the stud! That may have something to do with having placed the balance in isopropyl alcohol for 10  minutes...

 

 

Which is a bummer because:

• re gluing it seems a pretty tough proposition
• the HS shape is still acceptable
• the HS donor kit movement is in very bad shape
• a new balance for B and C versions is a twice as expensive as the previous one, at GBP18,

Live and learn...

 

[Men]

Seiko's 7S26 do not have high amplitudes. The 225 was perfect......sorry m8. But might be some licht on the end of the tunnel. Stud is not glued so you should be able to put it back.