Beginner advice - cleaning in an apartment

[lepistone]

Hi! I'm Leo and so far I followed Mark's courses (great work Mark!) and as suggested I stripped and put together an ST36, so far twice. All good so far, except a flying click spring that I managed to find on the floor.

Now it's time to think about cleaning and I'm considering carefully the different options. I live in an apartment in Stockholm. Ventilation is always on and windows can be opened, but still I would like to keep the family exposure to toxic fumes to a minimum. Also being able to drain the liquids in the sink sounds convenient. I don't have machines right now, but I could consider an ultrasonic or some spinning contraption maybe (chrono clean or similar, if it's not too big).

So I thought I could try out a water and alcohol based system, using heptane only for the balance complete and the pallet fork. In my area I can procure easily 99% IPA, distilled water and generic Heptane. Then I usually order tools from Cousins, which does ship hazardous liquids to Sweden but it's very expensive to do so.

I was wondering if such a mostly water-based system makes sense for me a beginner? I could pre-clean with IPA and pegwood, then clean with some water-based detergent, then rinse with tap water, then distilled water, then alcohol, then low over for drying maybe. And keep the heptane only for dipping the balance complete and pallets. Any advice as a safe detergent? Dish soap even? Or I checked at Cousins at it seems that the only non-hazardous product they sell is Elma EC90, which among other things is classified as safe to drain. Could that be a good choice?
Re: the machine: should I be good starting by hand with these mostly safe liquids, of is it better to start off with an ultrasonic or something else?

What's my current plan? After practicing with my ST36, I was thinking of servicing pocket watches first - I like hamilton railroad ones, maybe. Then if I succeed with those, try to service some seiko and sw200 wristwatches.
Many thanks for any advice!

[Mark]

Just bare in mind that IPA will dissolve shellac, and pretty quickly too, so you are doing the right thing by not immersing balance or pallets in IPA. The data-sheet for the older Elma machines recommending the Cleaner, Water Rinse and IPA jars do not mention the dangers of using IPA as far as Im aware, which is unfortunate as it's possible some people could get tripped up.

[caseback]

47 minutes ago, lepistone said:

Hi! I'm Leo and so far I followed Mark's courses (great work Mark!) and as suggested I stripped and put together an ST36, so far twice. All good so far, except a flying click spring that I managed to find on the floor.

Now it's time to think about cleaning and I'm considering carefully the different options. I live in an apartment in Stockholm. Ventilation is always on and windows can be opened, but still I would like to keep the family exposure to toxic fumes to a minimum. Also being able to drain the liquids in the sink sounds convenient. I don't have machines right now, but I could consider an ultrasonic or some spinning contraption maybe (chrono clean or similar, if it's not too big).

So I thought I could try out a water and alcohol based system, using heptane only for the balance complete and the pallet fork. In my area I can procure easily 99% IPA, distilled water and generic Heptane. Then I usually order tools from Cousins, which does ship hazardous liquids to Sweden but it's very expensive to do so.

I was wondering if such a mostly water-based system makes sense for me a beginner? I could pre-clean with IPA and pegwood, then clean with some water-based detergent, then rinse with tap water, then distilled water, then alcohol, then low over for drying maybe. And keep the heptane only for dipping the balance complete and pallets. Any advice as a safe detergent? Dish soap even? Or I checked at Cousins at it seems that the only non-hazardous product they sell is Elma EC90, which among other things is classified as safe to drain. Could that be a good choice?
Re: the machine: should I be good starting by hand with these mostly safe liquids, of is it better to start off with an ultrasonic or something else?

What's my current plan? After practicing with my ST36, I was thinking of servicing pocket watches first - I like hamilton railroad ones, maybe. Then if I succeed with those, try to service some seiko and sw200 wristwatches.
Many thanks for any advice!

My take on this: If your plan is to continue this hobby, try and get a machine or build one yourself and use "proper" liquids. Good ventilation is very important. One option is to make a small cabinet with a (bathroom) fan and a hose:

Pocket watches are (only a bit) easier to work on because of their size, but often need more advanced skills. For instance, they often need a new balance staff or repivoting, have broken teeth, cracked jewels etc. You might be better off starting on wristwatches right away (mens, not ladies).

 

Edited Saturday at 07:21 PM by caseback

[JohnR725]

13 minutes ago, Mark said:

Just bare in mind that IPA will dissolve shellac, and pretty quickly too, so you are doing the right thing by not immersing balance or pallets in IPA. The data-sheet for the older Elma machines recommending the Cleaner, Water Rinse and IPA jars do not mention the dangers of using IPA as far as Im aware, which is unfortunate as it's possible some people could get tripped up.

Interesting the dangers of IPA? But it brings up a problem Elma recommends IPA as the final rinse in situations where the normal rinse will not evaporates. I've never actually looked at the programming of the cleaning machine as to how long it actually spends in the IPA it shouldn't really be that long. When I was cleaning watches at home I was using alcohol that the container it came in specifically said it would dissolves shellac and still never had a problem because the final rinse of alcohol is only supposed to rinse off the previous rinse so here in their? To be honest I never really times when I was doing it I would just put the parts in a beaker dump in alcohol swish it around the rinse it off and then put it right in the dryer. The problem would be extended time and especially if you heat up your alcohol that would speed up bad consequences.

45 minutes ago, lepistone said:

Elma EC90,

The problem with this choice of a cleaning product is it isn't actually for cleaning watch movements.

https://store.elma-ultrasonic.com/en/products/ec-90

3 minutes ago, caseback said:

My take on this: If your plan is to continue this hobby, try and get a machine or build one yourself and use "proper" liquids. Good ventilation is very important. One option is to make a small cabinet with a (bathroom) fan and a hose:

If you look through the discussion group I know we've talked about alternative cleaning products and? The problem with alternative products is experimentation is required. Plus the commercial stuff really works nicely but?

We now end up with an interesting problem and watch repair which is environmental air quality for human beings.

If you look at the quote above there is an excellent suggestion a box with ventilation system. If you look at the very newest of cleaning machines that's basically what they do they pull air in the machine so nothing gets out and it goes through a hose either outside or through an activated carbon filter.

 

 

 

[lepistone]

Thanks for the answers. In my case space is very limited: I only have the kitchen table on evenings. This is why I am considering a mostly water-based system (keeping heptane only for balance complete and pallets) and no cabinets, no big machines.

Any advice for water-based detergents that I could procure from Sweden (ordering from Cousins is OK especially for non-hazardous liquids because normal shipping would be used). Should I really get an ultrasonic for those or would it also work by hand?
Thanks!

[Endeavor]

2 hours ago, lepistone said:

Should I really get an ultrasonic for those or would it also work by hand?

For years I've done it the el-cheapo way (read: cleaning by hand).

Bought a 2nd Elma S15(H) ultra-sonic, including proper cleaning-fluids (Elma WF Pro (cleaning) & Elma Suprol Pro (rinse)) and entered a complete different cleaning world.

These cleaning fluids are none-water based and not that easy to obtain. Initially I bought these fluids in Germany "SKSONIC" (www.sksonic.de) but last year they stopped shipping international. Perhaps they resumed international shipping? You can always ask them.

You could also ask @VWatchie, he lives "next-door".

As for the fumes; I use the ultra-sonic in my garage, partly for the fumes, but more for our dog ...... he goes "bananas" when I switch on the ultra-sonic.

Oh, next on your list (if you consider watch-repair as a long-time hobby), a Microscope (up to 50x is enough). 

Pegwood leaves, observed under the microscope that is, whole tree-trunks behind Ultra-sonic, in combination with proper cleaning fluids, takes care of the cleaning.

Edited yesterday at 08:39 AM by Endeavor

[caseback]

Elma red?

[mbwatch]

17 hours ago, caseback said:

Pocket watches are (only a bit) easier to work on because of their size, but often need more advanced skills. For instance, they often need a new balance staff or repivoting, have broken teeth, cracked jewels etc. You might be better off starting on wristwatches right away (mens, not ladies).

Yes, good advice! Or dig through all my threads on the forum to read about misadventures with American pocket watches. You end up needing many additional vintage tools succeed with most old pocket watches.  And if you have already worked on the ST36 a few times then you have already built the tweezer skills needed for wristwatch movements. Return to the railroad watches once you are accustomed to hunting for tools and parts.

[VWatchie]

On 5/11/2025 at 2:29 PM, caseback said:

Elma red?

Excellent cleaner! I've used it for years. It has very little smell when diluted, is efficient, and is, I believe, biodegradable (I could be wrong about that).