Quartz Watches Troubleshooting Help

[bobm12]

Dear friends,

 

Lately I've come upon a few movements (quartz) from different manufacturers: Seiko, Citizen, Ronda, etc. They are all non working...or the hands don't move to be more precise. Now, I don't know much about quartz or electronic watches but this is what I do:

 

I test the battery and if it test good I test for a pulse.

 

If battery bad, replace for new one and test for pulse.

 

 

Now, some have pulse but hands don't move or some have no pulse and hands don't move. Either way I put them in the Horotec turbo:

 

 

and in both cases the hands will turn, forced by the tool. After this application they still won't work.

 

My question is: Where is the problem located for each case?

 

Pictures of a non working Fossil with a Ronda 515, new battery, no pulse and hands move when on the horotec tool:

 

 

 

I thank you in advance,

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[steven]

Bob, no pulse means either the circuit or the coil is spoilt.

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[bobm12]

Thank you Steven! Much appreciated. Would the hands still turn when on the Horotec turbo if the coil is bad?

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[Kraai]

Thank you Steven! Much appreciated. Would the hands still turn when on the Horotec turbo if the coil is bad?

 

When the stepping motor and the train is ok then the hands wil turn. While testing the magnetism comes then from the outside not from the coil.

 

On calibers with an very low frequency, Omega 1353, the stepping motor get every second an inpuls. When you give an turning field from the outside then the gair train will be damaged!

[Ishima]

I assume the turbo device works fundamentally the same as a demagnetizer, if so then it doesn't work through the circuit/coil, it simply generates a magnetic field that oscillates rapidly (more rapidly than what a watch normally does) it effects the magnetic stepping motor directly, causing it to turn 180 degrees to re align itself, at a rapid rate. 

So in other words, yes, as far as I'm aware it does not matter the condition of the circuit or coil, it should make the hands spin all the same. 
 

[steven]

Kraai, I didn't know that the test could damage low frequency caliber. Thanks for the advice.

I use an acoustic device that pick up the sound of the pulse. When I hear a very faint pulse, that means the circuit is good but the coil is damage. If no pulse at all, then the circuit is damage but the coil is usually good.

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[JohnR725]

The Horotec turbo simplistically replaces the internal circuit and coil to apply the magnetic field from outside of the watch. It doesn't just supply the magnetic field it supplies it at a very fast rate to allow you to see the hands spinning. Sometimes are advertised as miracle cleaning devices although they don't use the word miracle I'm just putting it here because it doesn't really clean it just spins the train possibly freeing up lubrication for a short time. There is no substitution for real cleaning which is disassembly same as a mechanical watch.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3dzx7CZJYU

 

Then a video on testing a watch without you do not necessarily have to have expensive test equipment like this.. Then he's testing a modern quartz watch and he's not familiar with older watches there are some differences.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIypsvp9D64

 

Some PDFs on quartz watches testing  theory.

 

http://www.witschi.com/assets/files/sheets/Knowledge%20Quartz%20Watch.pdf

 

http://www.witschi.com/assets/files/sheets/Witschi%20Training%20Course.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JohnR725]

When the stepping motor and the train is ok then the hands wil turn. While testing the magnetism comes then from the outside not from the coil.

 

On calibers with an very low frequency, Omega 1353, the stepping motor get every second an inpuls. When you give an turning field from the outside then the gair train will be damaged!

I'm not sure if I understand what you're trying to say? Most stepping motor watches by your definition would be low frequency they step once per second or slower.. So that would mean using this on all quartz watches would be bad. I'm not sure the tester would even work on the 1353 for those not familiar the stepping motor is of a different design. A lot of the early quartz watches used sealed motors..  Then if the watch doesn't have a secondhand the stepping rate can be even slower.  I once had a Timex watch that If I remember right  stepped once a minute.

[bobm12]

Great input guys, and as usual brilliant explanation John. Much appreciated.

 

I suppose those Rondas 515 will not be serviceable (US$15) and would rather be replaced?

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[JohnR725]

Bob you have a rather interesting question that can have multiple of correct answers. A very very long time ago I was at a lecture on fun and profit of quartz watch repair. So the individuals explaining about cost breakdowns like what would be the cost to completely service of quartz watch? Or replacing a coil for instance what is that's cost versus an entire movement? If you purchase the entire movement for less than a complete servicing you can just swap the movement. Or even the coil sometimes it was cheaper to buy an entire movement than just the coil. At $15 you really can't afford to do anything at all with this watch if you're making money other than just replacing the movement.

 

So at $15 obviously the watch was never meant to be serviced but I was going to recommend go ahead doing it anyway if the watch would come apart? After all were on a discussion group of people who like to disassemble things and you're not doing this for making a profit so for learning alone it's worth disassembling.

 

Then we have something very interesting the watch company Ronda has technical documentation. So at the link below are two PDFs the first one the datasheet Which has an interesting feature listed which I just going to quote directly from it "Repairable metal watch movement". So what exactly does repairable mean to this company? For that you need the second PDF 29 pages of everything. So everything is interesting way more than what you find in a lot of technical literature today. Basically everything related to the watches listed mechanical specifications, user guide, tools and how to service this watch. So starting on page 25 complete disassembly lubrication parts list. Page 27 all the electrical checks you need to do. Basically everything you want to know about this watch in one PDF.

 

http://www.ronda.ch/en/quartz-movements/quartz-essentials/ronda-powertech-500/caliber/515/

 

 

 

 

[Ishima]

As a side note to what's ended up being discussed as a result, i would like to argue against treating a 'sekonda' for example, in the same light as we might treat a 'jaeger lecoultre'.

And I really don't mean be reckless and stop caring, but some 'troubleshooting' methods that we wouldn't in a million years subject a fine, swiss watch with an ETA or watch manufacturers own movement to, I think is actually perfectly adequate, acceptable, and effective when used on a watch with a hattori plastic pc21, or a miyota 2025 (or their varients). They're simply a different matter. 

Edited December 16, 2015 by Ishima

[Ishima]

Obviously of course my comment doesn't really apply to hobby watch repair as much. I've taken apart 2025's and other such movements for fun, fixed setting levers and such for my own amusement.

[bobm12]

Excellent post John, I will be having a field day with the 515 and all the documentation. It will be a very interesting and learning experience. As it is, I decided to put this watch into circulation with a new movement BUT, I'm keeping -- and using -- the old movement for "research". :) Much appreciated, your words and documentation!

 

@ishima: Thank you for the insight Ishima. I will keep it in mind during my journey into digital movements! :)

 

Cheers,

 

Bob