Kieninger 02 J

[Davis]

Looking at a mantel clock for a friend.  It has an escapement  and a balance wheel with hairspring that looks good . When the clock is laid face down a blast of air will start the movement for a few seconds, with the balance wheel slowly slowing down. Trying to identify the power train but the polished side plates make it hard to follow the gear train.  The outer main springs appear to be over wound as I can’t turn the rear mounted key. The center one as a little movement in the winding direction. If I manually turn the minute hand the chimes and hour count works. Any help tracking down the movement specs  or comments will be appreciated.

 

Thanks for any replies, Dave

 

[ChrisInOz]

6 hours ago, Davis said:

Trying to identify the power train but the polished side plates make it hard to follow the gear train.

Referring to your second picture, showing the rear of the movement,  I'd say the going train is arranged in a straight line, vertical, down the centre line of the plates.  The going barrel arbor is at the bottom,  where you can see a winding square poking through the plate. You can just see a few teeth of the first wheel peeping out of the bottom of the plate.  This barrel would be the only one powering the going train.

It looks like the second wheel arbor, directly above the winding square, has a knob fitted for setting the hands.

The third and fourth wheel pivots are visible in a direct line between that knob and the escape wheel.

The barrel at the left side powers the quarter hour musical chimes only, and the chime train extends vertically above it.

The barrel at the right side powers the hourly strike only, and the strike train extends vertically above it.

I hope this helps

 

[watchweasol]

Hi. Dave. First thing to do is remove all power from the springs using a let down tool.  Looking from the front of the clock , left hand. Is strike. Center going train.  Right hand is the Chime train.

having re moved all power, if you remove the escapement. ie. Platform  and put a couple of winds on the going train ( center) and check if the train is free.  The symptoms you describe would indicate the movement needs servicing.  Dried out oil and dirt in the pivots, worn pivot holes are the most likely culprits.

[oldhippy]

It is a myth you cannot over wind a clock, you can only wind the springs up as tight as they will go. If the clock doesn't work then there is something causing problems the two main ones are dirt the other wear. What you have is quite modern I can tell by the clips that hold wheels in place and the style of the movement. Looking at the back plate from lest to right Chime Going and Strike. No pendulum as it has a platform escapement. If you are experienced enough remove the two screws that hold the balance in place and check to see if the pivots are good and not broken and check for oil or lack of.  

[rjenkinsgb]

It's a "J" series movement.

You can get parts manuals with exploded views on the Kieninger website, here - yours looks to be the second one down, rear wound with escapement:

https://www.kieninger-uhrenshop.de/en/category-45/category-48/

 

[Davis]

Thanks for the description. I had the going power coming from the springs on the out side. I guess that’s why I could not follow the gear train. I work on watches and I am used to having a service sheet to see the construction. I will remove all power and  “platform escapement” and see if the power train is free.  I replaced a ratchet wheel on my grandfathers clock many years ago and I know assembling the top plate is problematic, 

I didn’t know this type of escapement was called a platform type. 

Thanks for your comments, Dave

PS I was typing when R. Jenkins posted the link for the manual. I’ll check it our.

Edited October 23, 2024 by Davis
Added note

[Davis]

Now that I wound the proper spring the clock runs. It also chimes and counts the hours which was the problem the owner reported. Not sure what the problem was but the dial seemed stuck when I tried to remove it. We’ll  see what happens once I reassemble the case .

Thanks again for the lead on the parts diagram

Dave