Elma Unimix?

[Simeon]

When idly considering watch cleaning solutions, I come upon Elma Unimix.  This appears to be a 'rinse / lubrication' for whole watches.  Is anyone really washing complete watches in ultrasonics and then rinsing them in this stuff and calling them lubricated?  What is this actually used for? 

https://www.elma-ultrasonic.com/en/products/cleaning-chemistry/elma-luxury-clean

 

PI_UNIMIX_EN.pdf

[mikepilk]

1 hour ago, Simeon said:

 What is this actually used for? 

Good question. 

The only use I can think of would be watches like Timex, but that's hardly relevant these days.

[RichardHarris123]

I believe but forgive me if I'm wrong but @JohnR725 stated that he worked somewhere that dunked the whole movement for a quick turnaround. 

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, Simeon said:

What is this actually used for?

I like the wording of this what is it actually used for well that's a secret were not authorized to tell you. But seeing as how it's still being sold there must be a demand for the secret product.

Now that we got that out of the way does it have a purpose well?

Oh and you forgot one this one is still left most of the other ones appear to all be gone which is just as well this one is for the clock people so they don't feel left out

12 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

believe but forgive me if I'm wrong but

 

You have a very good memory technically I worked into shops that used a variety of the miracle substances as I like to call them. The first shop the wife disassembled kind of in other words movement comes out of the case hands and dial calendar stuff comes off as placed in the cleaning machine holder where the entire movement was cleaned and even hold really do 20 watches at a time quite a volume of watches this shop would be the shop that the highest volume of watches I've ever worked in a shop that did and yes they did it at a bargain price.

The second shop was a much smaller volume and something weird happened? Basically the three watchmakers not the shop owner had Swiss influence. Two of us had gone to wostep and there had better a school in Singapore someplace where somebody who had been towards step did the training so the three of us so enthusiastic about our work conveniently missed the last rinse of miracle substance and we lubricated the way you're supposed. The owner conveniently used his miracle substance.

I was looking for an advertisement so I found this instead.

 

Then there were a whole variety of substances like dual lube and here's an advertisement. Plus it tells you how to use it.

Here's some more reading of the miracle substances. Unfortunately you cannot hear the tone of my voice the incredible lack of excitement I have regarding the miracle substances.

 

 

 

 

 

[mikepilk]

Interesting reading.  It worked well for a year. I wonder what happened long term?

For 'lower value' watches, like Seiko 5, a service is many times the price of the watch. So maybe this would be a solution? *

(*sorry about the pun)

[RichardHarris123]

I can hear the tone of your voice loud and clear @JohnR725.

Interesting point @mikepilk, is it a solution to low cost watches that wouldn't get any form of service otherwise  

[Jon]

I know a watchmaker that  uses this method. He told me that it can only be done on fairly new watch movements that have been serviced within their service intervals, so there is no congealed lubricant to begin with. If there was, the jewel holes would need pegging clean. He also said that there s a higher return rate than if the movement were properly serviced.

Personally, I would feel I was conning someone if the movement wasn't completely disassebled and checked before cleaning etc.

[Simeon]

I am sure that I read somewhere that someone like Tissot (or even Omega) were advising that the whole movement be placed in the cleaner, fully assembled. 

[mikepilk]

Maybe I'll strap my whole collection of watches to my arms and legs, poor some of this stuff in the bath, and splash around a bit . Service the whole lot in one go 

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, Simeon said:

am sure that I read somewhere that someone like Tissot (or even Omega) were advising that the whole movement be placed in the cleaner, fully assembled.

Also include Rolex in this process. In a variety of service centers and watchmakers will practice something called free cleaning. This is where similar to the process described above watch is only partially disassembled and run through the cleaning machine into hack and usually it's a special machine for the process shorter cycle. Then at the nice clean watch they can proceed to evaluate disassemble repair whatever before complete disassembly and basically proper servicing.

The pre-cleaned method is frowned upon by some watchmakers as it basically obliterates the scene of the crime. It makes it a lot harder to look for things like metal filings if there now gone. But it does make it easier for looking for broken jewels cracked jewels where Rolexes obsessed with and shake adjustments having everything clean is nice.

I doubt any of the high-end watch companies would advocate any of these substances at all. For the most part they're entirely gone anyway which tells you the miracle of the miracle substances didn't last very long. But as I saw in the advertisements of the 70s there were quite a few products

4 hours ago, Jon said:

done on fairly new watch movements

Basically the first shop as I said my first job or he did this bizarre practice. I don't actually remember doing any repair? In other words the repair was only cleaning and miracle lubrication and finally regulation. So basically you are dealing with watches that cleaning fixes the problem anything that's going to need a serious repair isn't going to work with this method of all.

6 hours ago, mikepilk said:

It worked well for a year. I wonder what happened long term?

A lot of questions unanswered. Do you think about this like I thought in one of the instructions you are not supposed to clean the entire balance because you get it all over the hairspring etc. but you rinse it off so I guess well I remember we did lots of watches so I guess it worked. But if everything is coated with a microscopic film of lubrication Lubricating the pallet fork for instance would be totally insane because the oil will be whisked away because the thin film of oil. Although on the higher frequency like higher frequency lady Seiko watches. This shop was doing a lot of Seiko watches because these were the early days where the shops could be authorized this shop was authorized Seiko service agent. So on the lady Seiko high-frequency the pallet fork came out it was rinsed off and the entire pallet fork was epilam. But the other watches I just have to wonder

5 hours ago, Jon said:

Personally, I would feel I was conning someone if the movement wasn't completely disassebled and checked before cleaning etc.

Now we end up with an interesting problem? As I said this was my first job out of school so was extremely long time ago I believe I got one third of whatever they got. It's basically what I would call a percentage you get a percentage of whatever they get. A percentage shop is extremely bad if there's a problem and you of a problem with the watch now you're not going to get paid to do the repair. The only way to make money is by being really really fast and no I wasn't really that fast

so one of our biggest problems is is to relate the cost of this to the cost today. Plus my memory in those early days was that the jewelry store brought in the work or the people who set it from their stores nobody cared about quality all they cared about was price. So if you set up shop as a watchmaker and nobody's willing to pay the price to do a quality repair and you starve to death versus this miracle substance what would you do?

As I said it's a unfair comparison because in the second shop we did service the watch is properly we did disassemble them we did wail them at least three watchmakers did the owner still used his miracle lube which left the last rinse a really pretty blue colored they had tinted the miracle substance. It's like I remember one day an entire box of safe clocks came in and I wondered? So apparently we had a contract with a company servicing safe clocks these were all modern Swiss not the pretty old ones. By the Monday they're all gone again as just think how fast it would be to and I always wondered because? I used to know somebody who worked for a security company and occasionally the bigger the banks and stuff they would have more of the clocks all he need is one to release the mechanism so you can unlock your safe so a banker something would typically have three or four clocks something smaller and cheaper might have one too would be much better. But here you have something to be extremely expensive if all four stopped which apparently on occasions they did and then there lubricated with this miracle substance fortunately other than explaining in this message I don't have to ever again think about this insanity

I guess what we have would have to stop and think about this for placing a modern view of things on this time so in other words is nobody was not pay the watchmaker service the watches basically watch repair was considered at the time a dying field anyway because remember the newfangled electric watch it come into existence in the late 50s and I think this might abound about the time of the digital watch and the watchmakers all felt this was the end of them anyway and if no one's going to pay for your servicing because you have to go back and look at the last two magazines I was looking at I couldn't believe the number of ads in a professional watchmaker's magazine to the must of been a definite need for cheap servicing?

Oh and of course there is the other amusement nobody sees what's inside their watch they don't know if their watches disintegrating or not all they know is that? And we cannot entirely say it was cheap because typically the wholesale shop we charge a price jewelry stores would typically double that cost and occasionally some shops would wear stores would cripple price. So the customer still paying a reasonable sum of money in 1970 but the watchmakers only making a fraction of.

 

I decided to go back and look at the magazines I was looking at and it must've been cost must've been the prime factor some reason that this stuff came out because literally everybody had cents.just one or two products but lots of products like here's one that I didn't even know about

Notice how there's a reference of long-term testing instills so much confidence in a they've tested for almost one whole year. And now the nifty product is on the market.

Then yes I really do like the word miracle.