Lets see if you have learned anything

[oldhippy]

Can you point out what is wrong with this one.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204908928443?itmmeta=01J3TXV8AHNFQ9Q4MFYA3BWETB&hash=item2fb5861dbb:g:UX4AAOSwHXFmpTF~&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4FKFz3JsGpuu6OkOEPduwqmENjFAVxU8fY57zwonxvSmwsf6zp1qv0b8%2BLbdOMHfpWlf5fTuexwYf8YBzGbCtduSy3%2F5LHdDfZkA%2F13OFTOEaCJNlXeTod7POlTpFYdH%2Bb6uQadVEnP5JrlxZbIdFybrdFZHDyG%2BmuYyUy9pvawXmKAreRDcqHAYGYJLGJv%2FfP5TwdLpQNgjaCs5xUG1e2KIfPtFbb8UK9KyeaIu6rP8Y6bFEolw5%2BjMfz4NLtvCQJbtas%2FFxgzq4iCZDaCrLUt9l0IX%2Fbe%2FyuK4pnQ9NsoF|tkp%3ABk9SR7KF7d2eZA&edge=1

[RichardHarris123]

The second hand looks out of place.  Probably wrong again. 

[Kalanag]

The pure existence of a center second is strange.

Edited July 27, 2024 by Kalanag

[oldhippy]

Oh dear.

[rjenkinsgb]

It appears that the movement parts include some stamped brass and CNC machined shafts. Also various unfinished or rough looking parts, that I do not think would be allowed by any decent clockmaker.

I don't think it's very old. Another modern reproduction.

 

[oldhippy]

  On 7/28/2024 at 6:48 AM, rjenkinsgb said:

It appears that the movement parts include some stamped brass and CNC machined shafts. Also various unfinished or rough looking parts, that I do not think would be allowed by any decent clockmaker.

I don't think it's very old. Another modern reproduction.

 

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You are right it is another Chinese fake. The chinese carriage strikes always show the striking works on the back plate and not between the dial and front plate. The bell is poor and it always has two holes in it. You hardly ever have a sweep seconds hand on French carriage strikes. The platforms are normally of a white/gray metal and the platform screws are not positioned as you find with the French types which have four screws while the chinese tend to have three.   

[HectorLooi]

When did these Chinese fakes first appear on the market?

The escapement look like the ones used in Russian marine clocks. 

The brass is also not polished like French clocks.

[RichardHarris123]

Keep them coming, I'm going for a record of incorrect answers. 

[oldhippy]

I would say around the year 2010.

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 7/28/2024 at 9:07 AM, RichardHarris123 said:

Keep them coming, I'm going for a record of incorrect answers. 

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Not that I'm competitive in any way but i bet i could beat you Rich

[oldhippy]

You are both having a go which is good. I do have a good laugh over these little teasers. Don't forget I have years of experience when it comes to clocks, I don't expect many to hit the nail on the head first time.  

Have a go Neverenoughwatches and RichardHarris123. Pick the bones out of this when I saw it I burst out laughing, I thought this is just right for my friends to have a go at. Who ever points out the most will be the winner. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/387233272748?itmmeta=01J3WPVATMKS5HVVJGGE3WBMC1&hash=item5a28e6d3ac:g:1OAAAOSwol9moQNn&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8EoDZyfT4GyLjd12NszUtkN9SX0X9853H7dCKOw94IvUoCsmIBczBBXUbuIfBmQNL5CtJfIAr0Q0eVboBbCjUUO6YCYgYRUhGbrt%2F7vvvsyw9XTtluOYYiZrDJBa8i3axwK4TNmQHvQGnLwIAKebUZDjrfTpH2430QGND8cEF%2FA59AWJYq9fiwWspGcEEx8GV4lGoxNxI55gG1%2B0OIsJseZPBNxN4jIhyIWUh0RtxEdvt2hO3jB%2FvXQCM96X3hyFmArPfKVQYJ%2Bte4DpsWhS0Dx0ljliJPJl%2ByeKencsJE1g8IbiWL%2FEtGNEXYDdHzY1ig%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7Ct7ZafZA&edge=1

Edited July 28, 2024 by oldhippy

[tomh207]

No clock guy but I did spend many hours sitting quietly whilst my grandparents visited their friends who had them 

1 it has a seconds hand!

2faceplate is warped as it is too thin for this type of clock

3 pendulum and rod(?) look very poor quality 

4 no weights, looks like it might be spring driven?

5 case looks like it’s from a 100 year old coffin that’s been dug up

 

hope I got at least one right

 

Tom

[HectorLooi]

Doesn't look like the work of the Chinese. Where do you think this originated from?

[RichardHarris123]

Tom beat me to most of it. Other than that, the hands look modern. I winds from the back, which seems very inconvenient. 

[watchweasol]

The hands and second had look like it’s gone a quartz movement in the back.  Cobbled up job

[oldhippy]

Oh dear Richard it doesn't wind from the back.

[RichardHarris123]

Wrong again, I'm going for the record of incorrect answers   @Neverenoughwatches, eat my dust.  

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 7/28/2024 at 2:55 PM, tomh207 said:

No clock guy but I did spend many hours sitting quietly whilst my grandparents visited their friends who had them 

1 it has a seconds hand!

2faceplate is warped as it is too thin for this type of clock

3 pendulum and rod(?) look very poor quality 

4 no weights, looks like it might be spring driven?

5 case looks like it’s from a 100 year old coffin that’s been dug up

 

hope I got at least one right

 

Tom

Expand  

 

  On 7/28/2024 at 8:13 PM, RichardHarris123 said:

Wrong again, I'm going for the record of incorrect answers   @Neverenoughwatches, eat my dust.  

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I cant get right what i dont answer, so by default that makes me the winner

 

My trained joiner's eye tells me it isn't level, my other eye tells me that i may also be wrong about that. Whats the chances of.....2 guys that go by the name of Richard, that live in Yorkshire and both of them know f. all about clocks

  On 7/28/2024 at 8:13 PM, RichardHarris123 said:

Neverenoughwatches, eat my dust. 

Expand  

Put sauce on it and I'll eat it mate.

[Kalanag]

A weight driven movement without accessible arbors through the dial. Might be wound like a cuckoo clock?

Could it be an one-hand movement with just an hour hand? The minute hand is replaced by the numbered disk behind the dial. Then not only the hands but the dial with minute numbers are wrong here!

Here is an example of a (hopefully) genuine one-hand clock:

Edited July 29, 2024 by Kalanag

[rjenkinsgb]

It looks like Mr. Caygill of Asrigg liked that general style of movement, with various complications - there are a few other examples around that look to to have similar movements? eg.

https://drumfarmantiques.co.uk/shop.html#!/products/an-18th-century-oak-longcase-clock-0x2c--the-dial-inscribed-caygill-0x2c--askrigg

https://www.johnmoran.com/auction-lot/a-george-iii-caygill-of-askrigg-tallcase-clock_8C343C9979

 

One without winding holes in the face, as with Oldhippy's example, but movement not shown:

https://auctions.tennants.co.uk/auction/lot/1405-an-oak-thirty-hour-longcase-clock-painted-arch-dial-inscribed-c-caygill-askrigg-late-18th/?lot=2174874&sd=1

 

 

[oldhippy]

So what we have is a complete nightmare. It is a marriage but it is obvious, when a marriage is created with clocks it is done in such a way that only those with a professional eye now what to look for, but this a blind person would spot it.

So first the movement, the reason it has no key holes it is a 30 hour movement they work on a continues chain or rope  and you wind it up by pulling on the chain or rope it works on  a single weight, some also have a tiny weight which is called a donut and it helps to feed the chain such as prevent tangling. It strikes on a count wheel on the back plate which you can just see. This dial is a bit of a mystery because the number 5 has a short tail which was used up until 1710 but the pattern should be latter? As for the sweep second hand as you can see it is a modern red one they never existed not in 30 hour movements, I’m wondering if the seller just stuck it in to make it look good the other hands are modern and the look as if they are from a battery movement. You can tell by the movement and the room it has sitting on its seat board that the case doesn’t belong. The case or should I say the hood is in the style which is called Swan neck very popular. The long door is a sign of around the nineteenth century. As you see it really is a bag of spanners.

Kalanag is the winner as pictures were found and the info was very good.

Thanks all for taking part in the fun

  

[RichardHarris123]

Looooser, me that is.  Post some more, this is fun. 

Are any of the clocks, you have posted so far of any use?  As in, could the dials etc be used for a restoration?

[oldhippy]

If you could find the correct movement or case it would never be worth it. These days people are after the complete originals. I wouldn't give them house room.