Rolex 3135-510 Drive Wheel for ratchet, appears to be worn, not winding watch enough

[OldTimer]

The pivot appears to have way too much side shake in the jewel, but I am not sure. It is the only issue I can find in the auto wind train of wheels. The auto wind works but not enough to keep the watch running over about 12 hours. It should wind the watch enough to use more of the 40 hours of reserve. All those parts have been cleaned. The watch run beautifully except for the auto works. Can someone help me confirm whether this could be the issue or if there is another place to look for a reason the watch won't run longer from the automatic winding? Thanks.

[OldTimer]

Additional information: that wheel runs on three jewels--one for each pivot and a middle one that is at the base of the pinion gear of that wheel. The pivots on the ends are normal, but the middle one has a lot of side shake. Now I am doubting that it is the problem. Advice on where to look for an issue is appreciated.

 

[Kalanag]

The middle juwel is huge. It seems very unlikely that there is exceptional wear while the upper and lower pivots are still fine. And a triple bearing needs some play to avoid binding due to coaxial tolerances.

The most critical parts are the reversers. Thay have to be very clean and free of oil (except the pivots).

Edited January 23 by Kalanag

[Endeavor]

17 hours ago, OldTimer said:

Additional information

A lot of clear close-up pictures will probably say more than a 1000 words and you have a better chance that more members may spot the problem(s).

Pictures are easy to attach

 

Edited January 23 by Endeavor

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 1/22/2024 at 3:55 AM, OldTimer said:

The pivot appears to have way too much side shake in the jewel, but I am not sure. It is the only issue I can find in the auto wind train of wheels. The auto wind works but not enough to keep the watch running over about 12 hours. It should wind the watch enough to use more of the 40 hours of reserve. All those parts have been cleaned. The watch run beautifully except for the auto works. Can someone help me confirm whether this could be the issue or if there is another place to look for a reason the watch won't run longer from the automatic winding? Thanks.

The auto works might be providing enough wind but is the mainspring managing to retain it ?

[OldTimer]

Thank you for the insights. The reversers are completely clean. I hadn't thought of the main spring as an issue. Will work on photos.

[JohnR725]

On 1/21/2024 at 7:55 PM, OldTimer said:

The watch run beautifully except for the auto works.

I assume you're suggesting it runs beautifully when you manually wind the watch? So if the watches running beautifully winds nice everything is working then why would it be a mainspring issue? Maybe we need to evaluate your testing procedure in other words if you physically wind up the watch how long does the watch run?

oh and we seem to have a missing background history? in other words did you service the watch was a giving a problem for you service to its etc.

 

[Knebo]

Hello @OldTimer,

I echo what other say, pictures would help a lot.

 

 But let me ask a few questions. I serviced a 3135 just a few weeks ago. 

1.

On 1/22/2024 at 4:55 AM, OldTimer said:

too much side shake in the jewel

Is this side shake observed when the automatic works is installed on the movement, or when assessed separately / taken off from the movement?

The 3135-510 driving wheel is effectively held by three jewels. Two in the automatic works - and the third is on the barrel bridge (right next to the ratchet wheel). Is it possible that the driving wheel missed that third jewel on the barrel bridge?  If so, you probably (hopefully!) weren't able to screw down the automatic work fully onto the base movement.

 

2. Another thing to check is the rotor. Is the axle worn? Symptom would be too much up/down movement of the rotor. There should be practically zero play.

 

3. Did you lubricate like this?

Edited January 25 by Knebo