Jump to content

Information please - Seiko 4006 balance complete


Recommended Posts

 Never.

"remember to mark the stud's position on the balance wheel so the hairspring fits back on the balance in the same position". 

Will do. Not done on my first one, but I will use that for practice. Watching all 3 of Chronoglide's  videos on hairsprings. No, 2, first time at present. Watching each one 2 times and making notes before moving on.

Good this hobby innit?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I can't imagine trying to straighten out a wristwatch hairspring without a microscope, x10 seems just perfect, maybe thats just me. I've not seen it mentioned yet but when you remove the hairspring from the balance, remember to mark the stud's position on the balance wheel so the hairspring fits back on the balance in the same position. 

If at all possible,  it might not be perfect if the hairspring is all over the place. But if you can mark it's position it at least gives you a starting point. Traditionally a scratch mark would be placed on the balance wheel, I've even seen dimples punched on to wheel ( dont do that ! )  a dot on the top of the wheel from a fine permanent marker will help you to reposition the hairspring somewhere near.

23 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

 Never.

"remember to mark the stud's position on the balance wheel so the hairspring fits back on the balance in the same position". 

Will do. Not done on my first one, but I will use that for practice. Watching all 3 of Chronoglide's  videos on hairsprings. No, 2, first time at present. Watching each one 2 times and making notes before moving on.

Good this hobby innit?

Left you another little not about marking up the balance wheel.

23 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

 Never.

"remember to mark the stud's position on the balance wheel so the hairspring fits back on the balance in the same position". 

Will do. Not done on my first one, but I will use that for practice. Watching all 3 of Chronoglide's  videos on hairsprings. No, 2, first time at present. Watching each one 2 times and making notes before moving on.

Good this hobby innit?

You got this Ross, become proficient at shaping and repairing hairsprings and it will open a whole new avenue of watch repair for you. Keep the forum updated with progress, me and many others will be eager to know how it goes. I dont know if you've watched this old video before of the master at work, ive posted it more than once, but i love it. The instruction is great but take some of the ease of doing it with a pinch of salt, thats a bloody big spring he's demonstrating with and he was very good at it.

https://youtu.be/egCwtMMoOCU?si=DoERpimbV6NhqZ99

23 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

 Never.

"remember to mark the stud's position on the balance wheel so the hairspring fits back on the balance in the same position". 

Will do. Not done on my first one, but I will use that for practice. Watching all 3 of Chronoglide's  videos on hairsprings. No, 2, first time at present. Watching each one 2 times and making notes before moving on.

Good this hobby innit?

Just noticed something Ross when you reply you write out a quotation from someone. Its possible to click onto part of someone's post then drag it open and copy it like so by clicking quote selection, just if you want to reply to a particular quote in that post  rather than the full post. I cant remember if I've seen you do this before.

Screenshot_20240124-125122_Samsung Internet.jpg

Edited by Neverenoughwatches
Link to comment
Share on other sites

?????  "remember to mark the stud's position on the balance wheel so the hairspring fits back on the balance in the same position". 

Will do. I will use a marker pen, not make a physical scratch.

Question for members. Why mark the outer wheel relative to the stud. Why not at the centre where the collet gap is? 

Excuse my ignorance for the question.

Ross

Sorry about the full size insert in Never's post above. Don't know what happened.

 

Edited by rossjackson01
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

?????  "remember to mark the stud's position on the balance wheel so the hairspring fits back on the balance in the same position". 

Will do. I will use a marker pen, not make a physical scratch.

Question for members. Why mark the outer wheel relative to the stud. Why not at the centre where the collet gap is? 

Excuse my ignorance for the question.

Ross

 

Actually I think it's a great question. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

Sorry about the full size insert in Never's post above. Don't know what happened.

That wasn't you Ross , it was me giving  you an example of quote selecting instead of you having to physically write out someone's quote.

34 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

Question for members. Why mark the outer wheel relative to the stud. Why not at the centre where the collet gap is? 

Not as accurate Ross and you would need to get under the hairspring to do that, so not a very safe option. But there might be instances when you could do that if you wanted to.

17061030598257623894346339919077.jpg

Edited by Neverenoughwatches
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

raditionally a scratch mark would be placed on the balance wheel, I've even seen dimples punched on to wheel ( dont do that ! )

Rich, the dimples are more likely to be from the factory adjustment/dynamic poising 

 

Tom

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

Rich, the dimples are more likely to be from the factory adjustment/dynamic poising 

 

Tom

Hi tom,  i know what you are thinking,  the burr cutouts found under the balance wheel to remove weight. No these were punch marks in line with the stud very similar to the gouging marks under a cock. A big bunch of balance completes i bought had these marks. Coincidentally dont buy job lots of balance completes, they will be all fluked, dont ask me how i know 🤨

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Hi tom,  i know what you are thinking,  the burr cutouts found under the balance wheel to remove weight. No these were punch marks in line with the stud very similar to the gouging marks under a cock. A big bunch of balance completes i bought had these marks. Coincidentally dont buy job lots of balance completes, they will be all fluked, dont ask me how i know 🤨

That is so bad Rich, not something you want to see for sure

Tom

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

That is so bad Rich, not something you want to see for sure

Tom

I'm ever so pleased you didn't ask me how i know Tom 😅.  No actually it wasn't so bad, it was a big job lot with 120 balance comps many with naffed springs and broken balance pivots, the ones you see on ebay are all like this, they have been swapped out from the container, new for the replaced ones from the watch.  A few are new but not many. You have to ask yourself, why would a watchmaker buy a load of random caliber new bal comps ? He wouldn't, they were for repairs and you end up with the naffed ones out of the watch. Some obviously hated replacing staffs or couldn't straighten out a hairspring, so on the positive side i have plenty of staff replacement practice to get in and Ross has around 30 hairsprings coming his way to fix for me 😅. The lot was fine it had so much other material in it as well screws , springs crowns stems staffs brass tube blue steel rod setting levers there was even a few grams of wierd looking scrap gold in there that i almost threw away until i thought to look for a hallmark, that almost pays for the lot. Some  of the completes will be an easy fix and there is some military among them, one in particular stood out a KF320, have a guess what movement that fits into. So yes it could have been better but it was still good and kept me quiet for a day sorting it all out.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I'm ever so pleased you didn't ask me how i know Tom 😅.  No actually it wasn't so bad, it was a big job lot with 120 balance comps many with naffed springs and broken balance pivots, the ones you see on ebay are all like this, they have been swapped out from the container, new for the replaced ones from the watch.  A few are new but not many. You have to ask yourself, why would a watchmaker buy a load of random caliber new bal comps ? He wouldn't, they were for repairs and you end up with the naffed ones out of the watch. Some obviously hated replacing staffs or couldn't straighten out a hairspring, so on the positive side i have plenty of staff replacement practice to get in and Ross has around 30 hairsprings coming his way to fix for me 😅. The lot was fine it had so much other material in it as well screws , springs crowns stems staffs brass tube blue steel rod setting levers there was even a few grams of wierd looking scrap gold in there that i almost threw away until i thought to look for a hallmark, that almost pays for the lot. Some  of the completes will be an easy fix and there is some military among them, one in particular stood out a KF320, have a guess what movement that fits into. So yes it could have been better but it was still good and kept me quiet for a day sorting it all out.

Fits in the legendary Grana Rich?

always though, “where’s there’s muck there’s brass” 😂🤪

Tom

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

Fits in the legendary Grana Rich?

always though, “where’s there’s muck there’s brass” 😂🤪

Tom

Correct Tom, i may never see one but i have a complete balance for it 😅. That calibre is used in a few watches really not just the WWW grana. These lots are great if you can repair stuff, thats why I'm so keen on me and everyone else starting out learning the old skills like fixing hairsprings. Parts are running out they must be, in 10 years time this hobby the way its going will be much more repair than replace unless something changes. You know as well as me Tom, that we are 30 years too late to the game for it to be any more than just a game.  I've made myself sad now 😪   😅😅😅😅😅

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Correct Tom, i may never see one but i have a complete balance for it 😅. That calibre is used in a few watches really not just the WWW grana. These lots are great if you can repair stuff, thats why I'm so keen on me and everyone else starting out learning the old skills like fixing hairsprings. Parts are running out they must be, in 10 years time this hobby the way its going will be much more repair than replace unless something changes. You know as well as me Tom, that we are 30 years too late to the game for it to be any more than just a game.  I've made myself sad now 😪   😅😅😅😅😅

As long as we have sheer **BLEEP** mindedness to never be beaten we still have a chance 

Tom

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

As long as we have sheer **BLEEP** mindedness to never be beaten we still have a chance 

Tom

If we enjoy it thats the main thing now. But it will get more difficult to get parts i feel sure. I bet this hobby has grown massively in the last few years, you only have to look at the price increases of new and old watches to work that out. I remember Frank saying a while back." Gone are the good old days of being able to just swap the complete balance " or words to that effect. This is why there are guys like Kalle Slapp that are desperate to become totally self dependent for watch parts. The repair industry just needs someone with a yard full of cash to step up and start manufacturing obsolete parts.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, rossjackson01 said:

Question for members. Why mark the outer wheel relative to the stud. Why not at the centre where the collet gap is? 

It is in the math.  What is important is the angle of the collet (pick the slot as the reference) with respect to the roller table. The sensitivity of the angle to the mark is inversely proportional to the radius.  Mark it on the rim of the balance wheel.

image.png.aea9b4d4fe6fb4e2a3d6e11f381b56d4.png

  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, rossjackson01 said:

Not going to happen. But you are so right.

I might agree with you Ross, but how difficult could it be ? Cnc machines these days can knock up just about anything. 3D scanning, profile imaging , technology has advanced so much now. The Tornos micro production machines are amazing. Why is it that swiss manufacturing monopolise this industry ?  Surely Cousins have the finance to reproduce at least some of their own basic stock instead of labeling half their items as OBSOLETE.  If i won the lottery i would definitely have some plan down that path.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If anyone thought it was a viable business plan then someone would do it, supply and demand.  Yes, there are thousands of us out there but a majority are working on relatively cheap watches, after buying all the tooling, programming etc the parts will cost far more than the watch.  The future for all but high end watch parts is make them yourself.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

If anyone thought it was a viable business plan then someone would do it, supply and demand. 

Correct!  You cannot build a business making parts.  You can build a business making movements generating revenue and profit...the parts are a byproduct.  All of the capx is for the machines making the movements and you (kinda) get extra parts for free.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

If anyone thought it was a viable business plan then someone would do it, supply and demand.  

You would think so, maybe just needs someone brave enough to have a go. Would be interesting putting some figures together. I remember discussing with nickelsilver a similar venture for someone to make jewel bearings, the start up cost was much less than i expected.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As you say. 3D may give rise to a parts making organisation. There is a book that gives visuals of all watch parts. Not sure of the name. I think it has the word 'Best' in the title. Chronoglide has displayed it a few times.

Edited by rossjackson01
Spelling, Grammar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

As you say. 3D may give rise to a parts making organisation. There is a book that gives visuals of all watch parts. Not sure of the name. I think it has the word 'Best' in the title. Chronoglide has displayed it a few times.

There are still many parts available for samples at the moment but for how long ? Lots of assumptions but i just wonder how much to set up and what the real demand is ? 

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Have you noticed any problems with using no.1 all of the time ?  Could it be like using a pair of needle nose pliers to take all the parts of a car engine ?
    • The Chaika 1601A bridge styles look more like something from an earlier time. It is also finished relatively well for the 1980s, as a lot of manufacturers by then had started a race to the bottom in terms of finishing and materials as a result of the quartz crisis. If you compare it with a comparable Swiss movement from the same period, you will find they have much less elaborate bridges, and other cost cutting measures. Straight cut bridges with no bevel on the edges are much cheaper and simpler to produce than the curved bridges of the Chaika 1601A. They even went to the trouble of stamping a serial number on the movement. A practice which only the higher end Swiss manufacturers were bothering with by this point. The Chaika 1601A does have a relatively cheap balance though. The 'timing screws' in the balance are for decoration only. Having said all that, the USSR caliber designs were fairly conservative, and produced for relatively long periods. This was partly as a result of the command economy, which tended to lead to relatively little innovation in design, and partly because they weren't chasing after the fickle flights of fashion that arguably drove some of the changes from other manufacturers. Some of the USSR designs were licensed or even "borrowed" from Swiss and French designs.   For example I have a Sekonda pocket watch (which may be the next one on the bench for a clean and service). It has a Chelyabinsk Watch Factory "Molnija" 3602 caliber in it, which was based on a Cortébert movement used in Swiss watches from around 1940. Here is one of the examples from Ranfft. You can see that it is similar to the Chailka with curved bridges. They even had Breguet over coil hairsprings and "Geneva" striping. Some had shock protection, some did not.   The Sekonda is in its original 1980s plastic presentation box, complete with "manufacturers guarantee" (although Sekonda obviously didn't manufacture it). This same Molnija  movement was produced in the Chelyabinsk Watch Factory with little change, except notably in the level of finishing, from around 1947 until the early 2000s when production ceased. For comparison, here is a Swiss ST96 from around the same period as the Chaika and the Molnija. . Smaller jewels, flat and unrefined finishing, and all in all, a little bit lacklustre. .. and a Rolex 600 from around 1922   The Chaika, despite being from the 1980s, to my eye at least, looks a little closer to the Rolex than the ST96  
    • Elaborate on this statement. What sorts of things define calibers from different decades? The only thing I can think of short of the pocket to wrist watch shift around WWI and quartz is shock settings starting... late-40s, early-50s?
    • I'm not sure who "we" is as I'm not a part of how "we" do it. Most of "us" develop their own method(s). Please re-read what has been said;  
    • Nice one Andy- a very ‘blingy’ 404 with all those jewels…
×
×
  • Create New...