Seiko Presage SRPG23 - real or fake?

[lexacat]

My brother in law asked me to service a Seiko Presage that he picked up (for too much) at a pawn shop. It came with no box, papers, anything. That's red flag number one.

He wants to swap the crystal out for sapphire, and while removing the old crystal it just popped straight on out, no glue. Red flag number two.

The rotor bearing is loose as hell and needs replacing, but the rotor itself is not gold as I'd have expected, and signed 4R35a Twenty Four jewels. My understanding is the 4R35 is a 23 jewel movement, so it appears this is a fake rotor? Red flag three.

Lastly, the back of the dial is plain brass, I would have thought an OEM seiko dial would have the year of manufacture written on it, or some other identifying information? Red flag four.

It otherwise looks to be the real deal, the crown, case, caseback and bracelet seems legit, and while I don't have another SRPG23 to compare to, the dial looks nice.

Is there anything else I can be checking? My spidey sense is off the charts that this is an Ali-X fabrication with an NH35 movement in it, hence the jewel count on the rotor.

Here's the rotor:

 

Here's the crystal exactly as it looked removed from the case.

 

Here's the back of the dial.

Edited October 28, 2023 by lexacat

[thor447]

4R35A has 23 jewels.  The rotor is definitely wrong.  I haven't taken the dials off of any of the newer models, so I can't comment on that, but I would think at least they would put their manufacturing date codes on there like they did on all of the older models I've worked on.  I couldn't say for sure though.  I've done a couple Hardlex to sapphire upgrades, including some on newer watches (most recently an Alpinist), and each one of them had a crystal gasket (nylon/plastic type).

Edited October 28, 2023 by thor447

[lexacat]

Thanks Thor, turns out there was a much easier way to confirm it's a fake.

Serial number is 813124, which popped up on another forum:

https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/seiko-presage-sprb46j1-authenticity.5260007/

 

So yeah, 100% a fake watch. Bummer!

The crystal glue/gasket situation, from my research the old hardlex should have been glued in and essentially is a massive PITA to remove. According to the guy that sells the only box shaped sapphires I can find on the internet, the new sapphire needs to be glued in.

I've got all the parts, and the watch is disassembled, so I'm still going to service and repair it, but how unfortunate!

Glad it's not my money though.

[mikepilk]

Have a look at Mark's video, he shows how to spot a fake. Including a false plate stuck on the auto weight (from 15m)