Picking the Most Compatible Mainspring and/or Jewel

[PWFDmedic]

Greetings everyone,

I have a lovely little problematic pocketwatch of unknown manufacture.  Broken mainspring, broken friction fit hole top jewel for the 3rd wheel (I think it's a third wheel, I'm pretending I know what I'm talking about here).   Since I don't know the manufacturer of the movement, I surmise  have to find a replacement mainspring based on measurements taken from the broken spring.

The movement is 31.33mm in diameter (size 2?)  The mainspring is 1.4mm wide, 0.1mm thick (strength), and around 17.7 inches long (around 45cm).  The end is on the Cas-Ker chart as Hole End or "H".

Soooooo, the closest match I see on a list of American manufacturer mainsprings is the Waltham 2220.  16" long, 1.5mm wide, 0.15mm strength.  Am I crazy to think this is close enough for a replacement since I feel I'm unlikely to easily find anything else closer?  How close does "close" have to be without worrying about damaging the works?

My next challenge will be a replacement jewel.  The broken jewel is in the photo.  I just bought a jeweling tool and am game for trying my first friction fit jewel.  I suspect pushing the jewel from the setting will result in pieces of jewel, not one I can get a good measurement on.  So I guess I'm shopping for gauges now.  But extremely interested in any observations anyone wants to share.

Anyone seeing any major newbie errors I'm making?

Thanks so much!

[RichardHarris123]

Watches don't discriminate against nationally, buy the closest you can find. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

42 minutes ago, PWFDmedic said:

I have a lovely little problematic pocketwatch 

Hey matey, I haven't heard of that particular brand but tbh i think you were just asking trouble

[Nucejoe]

 Did you take pictures before tearing down the movement ?      If not, helps if you put the bridges and cock back on the mainplate so we can see what the layout looks and an image of the keyless ( other side of the mainplate), this all might help identifying  the movement. 

So far as mainspring, you aproach is valid. 

Rgds

[JohnR725]

I like that the center wheel is still attached to the bridge? On vintage watches like this the Cannon pinion does not go together in the normal fashion and definitely does not come off in the normal way either at least it isn't supposed to. it would've been helpful L a picture on the dial side but I'll make an assumption. The picture below shows the problem on vintage watches the Cannon pinion frictions tightly onto the center pin that goes through the center wheel which is hollow. Notice how on one side you have the square for setting the watch? As you have the Cannon pinion half you still have the pin in the center wheel which is why it's sitting on the bridge. So very carefully need to push the pin back out it would be better if you put the bridge back on the watch Sue don't break anything. Then the actual friction comes from the pin and going through the center wheel

that are be helpful to have a picture of the mainspring barrel or even a picture of the original spring so I can see how it actually hooks. One of the problems with looking at American pocket watches are just because it says that it's a hole end doesn't mean it's going to be the same shape as what you're looking for. That often times the barrels have been modified from whatever they originally had anyway.

then it's hard to tell from the picture but it looks like you have a cylinder watch you would know by looking at the balance wheel you'll notice it's different than a regular lever balance wheel

8 hours ago, PWFDmedic said:

first friction fit jewel

we would need better pictures but it's probably not a friction fit jewel. You can put a friction fit jewel in that would make things considerably easier for you. But it should be a burnished in jewel based on the age of this watch in other words these jewels existed before friction fit jewels. Oh and if you put the friction fit jewel in it will stand out and look different because modern jewels are a nice red color versus the pale color of yours which is probably a natural stone. The way we can tell about the type of jewel it is would be a better picture of the other side a close-up picture would be needed.

[PWFDmedic]

I do have more photos, and can add a close up of the other side of the jewel when I get home to do it.  Burnished in jewels is an entirely new topic for me.  Going to have to read up on that.  In my newbieness, I assumed if I didn't see screw set, it must be friction.  I guess one thing to be thankful for is I didn't do anything crazy like spend $500 on a jewel and pivot gauge set.  Yet.

Still super interested in narrowing down the manufacturer.  But this thing is going to be a real project.

[Jon]

4 hours ago, PWFDmedic said:

Burnished in jewels is an entirely new topic for me

They are also called 'rubbed in' jewels. As already said, if you are going to replace and don't have rubbing in and rubbing out tools then the best bet is to fit a friction-fit jewel after boring/reaming open the hole to 0.01 mm smaller than the diameter of the replacement jewel

[PWFDmedic]

On 9/20/2023 at 10:24 PM, JohnR725 said:

we would need better pictures but it's probably not a friction fit jewel. You can put a friction fit jewel in that would make things considerably easier for you. But it should be a burnished in jewel based on the age of this watch in other words these jewels existed before friction fit jewels. Oh and if you put the friction fit jewel in it will stand out and look different because modern jewels are a nice red color versus the pale color of yours which is probably a natural stone. The way we can tell about the type of jewel it is would be a better picture of the other side a close-up picture would be needed.

You were, of course, right.  It is rubbed in, and now I've watched a number of videos on rubbed in jewels and how to replace them with the correct tools.  The adventure continues.  I feel like I'm capable of reaming a hole and friction fitting a jewel, and I have a jeweling set for that, minus the reamers.

But I'm also thinking I got myself into this, perhaps I should begin looking for jeweling tools for rubbing in (no idea if this terminology is correct).

Thanks for the heads up and for starting me down yet another pathway to adventures in learning how much I don't know about any of this.  It is entertaining.  And I've spent so much more of tools than I would ever have predicted.  Specialty tools, how irresistible they are.