The journey of a thousand miles…

[Aroxx]

...starts with a single movement. Or something like that . I finally took some free time yesterday and got through a bit more of Practical Watch Repairing by Donald de Carle. I wanted to get hands on so I grabbed a non-runner that looked easy to take apart and went to town. Just followed the basics steps from the book with no worries about causing damage. I didn't completely dismantle every piece, just removed most major components and then put back together. I was having fun so I grabbed the largest movement I have, a Waltham pocket watch, and did the same on that. Probably should have started there but the Waltham finishing is so nice I felt bad using it as the first victim even though it's already basically junked. Most of my junkers are tiny ladies watch movements so not great for learning.

I was hoping to get a little bit of practical context before reading too much. I think I achieved that goal so hopefully things make more sense as I move along. It was also good to get a bit of practice manipulating the tiny pieces. It really is confounding how they can manufacture components this small. Eventually I'll move on to my practice movement so I can put it back together and hopefully get it back to a running state. Now off to do some more reading.

The non-runners. 

First victim. 

Second victim. 

The goal. 

[Waggy]

@Aroxx welcome to the addiction, as Yoda said "once you start down the dark side forever will it....". If I may offer some unsolicited advice, if I was starting out again I would start with a cheap runner to work on, this way, if it doesn't work at the end of the repair at least you know it was something you did. I see the logic in starting with a non-runner, as you have nothing to loose if you junk it, but you will never know if it was possible to repair it in the first place if you can't get it running.

The guys on here will help you out with any questions you have, as someone will have had the same issue you are seeing.

Good luck and welcome again! 

[JohnR725]

4 hours ago, Waggy said:

If I may offer some unsolicited advice, if I was starting out again I would start with a cheap runner to work on, this way, if it doesn't work at the end of the repair at least you know it was something you did. I see the logic in starting with a non-runner, as you have nothing to loose if you junk it, but you will never know if it was possible to repair it in the first place if you can't get it running.

usually the recommendation is something large like a pocket watch but it presents a problem. Basically exactly what's quoted above you start with a broken pocket watch practice taking apart putting it back together hopefully more than one time and of course it doesn't run but after all you're learning you don't care and it was not running in the first place. But are you really learning?

the problem with the approach above is it's a broken watch. the problem with a nonfunctioning watch is cleaning doesn't fix everything. So ideally for repair you'd have to make a diagnostics what is the problem, what do you do to fix the problem and when you're starting off that's not really what you should be doing. We should be mastering the art of successfully disassembling reassembling the watch without having issues.

So my recommendation is eBay look up 6497 or 6498 purchase the Chinese clone version brand-new. Then sooner or later than I need a timing machine anyway they're not just for timing there for diagnostics either the Chinese 1000 or 1900 are excellent machines. Yes I really do like to torture newbies with the timing machine you wouldn't have to have one but it makes things more fun. So if you have your timing machine and your new watch you can see what the watch looks like on the timing machine. Then you start to practice taking the watch apart put it back together putting it on the timing machine verifying it still looked more or less the the way it did before. If the watch survives this you can move on to cleaning lubrication and continuously practicing taking apart and putting it together.

If for some reason the watch ceases to function you can blame poor Chinese manufacturing or gremlins or depending upon where you live you may have cats are really good at playing with your watch when you're not looking other people may play with your watches as these would all explain why you're running watch mysteriously is no longer running.

The other advantage of a running watch is it gives you something to look at and it's big. I was you look at how the balance wheel oscillates how the hairspring looks notice it should be flat versus much later on where it probably got stretched because hairsprings love to get stretched and they loved not be flat anymore.

so yes you practice on your broken watches but don't have the illusion that you going to fix the thing and it's going to run that might happen but probably not. You ideally at some point time should have a running watch and make sure you take it apart put it back together and it still running. As there's a lot of things that might cause it never to run again far too many to even list.

Oh and your Waltham pocket watch were you paying attention to things? I snipped out your image notice how the watches in the setting mode versus the winding mode? When you reassemble the watch your watch is going to try to drive the entire setting mechanism to that's currently in setting mode which is what happens we take the pocket watch out of the case this is what it does. Later watch is put in mechanisms that would allow you to put the watch in running mode or winding mode out of the case. The notice in the image I circled something normally that should be where it is but if you pull it out just a little bit at the although in the winding mode. This is in place there by the manufacturer for this specific task to allow you to run the watch out of the case with the hands and dial on. Although I usually prefer not to put the hands and dial auto watch Toy verify it actually will run for a while. Yes I have a habit of assuming that running watches may not actually run and I hate them all case stopped to discover oh dear there is a problem it's better to verify that they run and they look reasonably decent on timing machine before you even think of casing them up.

oh and the other thing in the image below notice the disc with the screw? You want to be really careful if you disassemble less of noting where the parts are noting the spring if you're not careful it likes to fly away. Then in general disassembling the keyless a wall from 10 spew pain anyway because in order to get the stem assembly out there's a screw on the other side you have to take out. In general Waltham's are not my favorite watch and then a course there is the mainspring barrel assembly for this in interesting way of doing things.

 

[rossjackson01]

John.

There you go again. It's not often you are wrong, but you are right again. 

I wish I had done as you suggested. Started to learn on functioning watches. Due to financial restraints I found watches that were in my price bracket, usually 3 weeks savings and purchased them as they were 'broken and would benefit from repair'. I now have 30+ watches of various state of repair, all of which need replacement parts. The parts needed are nearly always the cost of the watches, and haven't prices gone though the roof since I started? If I had stayed on the same make I would have been able to use spare movement parts. 

I do as you suggest now. Stick primarily to one or two makes. Even then, within the range, many of the watches are not compatible.

Still, as you say, I now have a more structured learning curve. 

Experience brings sensibility. 

Edited July 24, 2023 by rossjackson01
Spelling, Grammar

[Neverenoughwatches]

11 hours ago, Aroxx said:

...starts with a single movement. Or something like that . I finally took some free time yesterday and got through a bit more of Practical Watch Repairing by Donald de Carle. I wanted to get hands on so I grabbed a non-runner that looked easy to take apart and went to town. Just followed the basics steps from the book with no worries about causing damage. I didn't completely dismantle every piece, just removed most major components and then put back together. I was having fun so I grabbed the largest movement I have, a Waltham pocket watch, and did the same on that. Probably should have started there but the Waltham finishing is so nice I felt bad using it as the first victim even though it's already basically junked. Most of my junkers are tiny ladies watch movements so not great for learning.

I was hoping to get a little bit of practical context before reading too much. I think I achieved that goal so hopefully things make more sense as I move along. It was also good to get a bit of practice manipulating the tiny pieces. It really is confounding how they can manufacture components this small. Eventually I'll move on to my practice movement so I can put it back together and hopefully get it back to a running state. Now off to do some more reading.

The non-runners. 

First victim. 

Second victim. 

The goal. 

I have mixed emotions when i hear a beginner call their practice pieces victims. I laugh and then cry a little     

2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Yes I really do like to torture newbies with the timing machine. 

Yes John we know, if you had your way you'd have the Chinese fit thumbscrews to the Weishis . 

1 hour ago, rossjackson01 said:

John.

There you go again. It's not often you are wrong, but you are right again. 

I wish I had done as you suggested. Started to learn on functioning watches. Due to financial restraints I found watches that were in my price bracket, usually 3 weeks savings and purchased them as they were 'broken and would benefit from repair'. I now have 30+ watches of various state of repair, all of which need replacement parts. The parts needed are nearly always the cost of the watches, and haven't prices gone though the roof since I started? If I had stayed on the same make I would have been able to use spare movement parts. 

I do as you suggest now. Stick primarily to one or two makes. Even then, within the range, many of the watches are not compatible.

Still, as you say, I now have a more structured learning curve. 

Experience brings sensibility. 

You are not alone Ross, i didn't start with a new working movement either. When buying something the non working aspect doesn't deter me either, I'm happier having this challenge, it actually forces me to learn and understand how watches work. I can have a watch with multiple faults, i just work through them one by one. Initially my learning jumped backwards and forwards from newbie stuff to some quite advanced, its mostly just evened itself out now. But i do have some criteria that the watch has to fill and i do have to feel reasonably confident that i will make it run acceptable. Certainly a good idea to stick to one or two brands, firstly you can build up stock and secondly you are generally in familiar territory. You are learning the pros and cons of those particular brands, its a bit like cramming for an exam. Instead of bits and pieces of information coming from different brands you are memory forcing information on a focused subject. It relates to watch repair in general but also specialises. When you've done with those brands move on to a couple more. Then its always nice to take a break and reacquaint yourself with an old favourite.  Also helps to completely weed out the ones you really hate, no need to punish yourself

[Aroxx]

Thanks all for the comments and helpful advice! I should clarify a bit. I have a small pile of running and non-running movements that I received for free. I did not purchase those with the intent of fixing or to use as a good starting point. Unfortunately, all of my running movements are minuscule ladies calibers that are about the size of a finger nail. Also, I did not go into these movements hoping to diagnose or fix anything. The idea was just to take major things apart and get a feel for working with tweezers and tiny screws and to get a better understanding of how the large components interact with each other. I think I accomplished that small goal and most importantly I had some fun with it. I've already noticed as I read a bit more that I'm understanding the diagrams and descriptions better even from just this small experiment.

It sounds like I should just start working on my practice movement next and not worry too much about breaking it. I have this ST36/6497 practice movement shown in my last picture above. I just didn't want to break the thing on my first go trying to do any of this stuff. But alas, I suppose this is what it's for after all.

2 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I have mixed emotions when i hear a beginner call their practice pieces victims. I laugh and then cry a little     

Sorry!  Just a bit of self deprecation I suppose since I don't know what I'm doing yet!

[JohnR725]

6 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I have mixed emotions when i hear a beginner call their practice pieces victims. I laugh and then cry a little 

Unfortunately I can understand this.

 

5 hours ago, Aroxx said:

I have a small pile of running and non-running movements that I received for free. I did not purchase those with the intent of fixing or to use as a good starting point.

We end up with interesting problems here. First off let's look at the winning lottery ticket problem. In other words the probability of this occurring is the same as purchasing lottery ticket it's not like it's never going to happen is just unlikely to happen and you should be aware of it. That is that just because you purchased the watch cheaper or it came in a bag of watches or somebody gave you a watch doesn't necessarily mean it's a worthless watch. Or maybe even of the official watch out of the the trash because somebody threw it away doesn't necessarily mean it's worthless.

So for instance goodwill stores I took a quick look apparently their international. People donate lots of stuff with the watches probably breaking into three categories in fact all these watches will break in the three categories. Stuff that you really don't want to repair typically. Stuff that can be repaired perhaps like as 17 jewel Swiss watch something with jewels in its Swiss even Japanese watches but typically a 17 jewel Swiss watch. Then your lottery ticket watch unfortunately it will probably won't be worth millions but still have to pay attention and can't assume that everything is a victim to be Destroyed in the process of learning.

Yes there is always the stories of somebody came in once and said they bought a Omega chronograph for $45. Obviously at $45 goodwill recognized it had more value than being tossed a bag of watches. Or we had a Somebody bring in a nondescript square quartz watch a don't remember if it had any fake looking diamonds are not. They traded the watch for a Bulova watch that retail probably for a couple hundred dollars 400 may be of course we would get the watch wholesales of behalf that. So why would we trade is several hundred dollar watch for crappy quartz watch may be because it had that name Patek Philippe. Yes it was a broken quartz watch because it was a gold watch and the name and it was a legitimate watch that's the other problem here there are so many fakes. It was sent the factory of Asheville come back it should be running and eventually we will sell it for several thousand dollars.

Personally one of my amusements with this group was somebody purchasing I believe off of eBay an early Seiko watch what didn't say Seiko. They purchased the sheep so now it's a cheap watch they are practicing and they broke the pallet hole jewel because my interpretations basically because I felt like it. No problem is a Seiko except it's a vintage Seiko so it was a problem getting a new jewel. In the meantime I found out it wasn't like a big winning lottery ticket but was a several hundred dollar watch.

So having said that there is a tiny percentage of something valuable most of the stuff out there nobody's going to care a few destroy it. But the learning point of view it would be nice if the watch was not a victim and if it would live. It's very satisfying and watch repair if the watch runs after you service cents. Which is one of the unfortunate problems of people like me who work on vintage way getting it to run satisfactory isn't always instantaneous process and its met with a heck of a lot of frustrations. If you stay with something newer 17 jewels not an automatic as you noticed stay away from the ladies watches there really tiny you'll have a better chance of success

oh hell on the watches you have in your picture don't have 17 jewels and even though they have screws and they can be serviced they really weren't sort of meant to be serviced and that will probably lead to frustrations.

5 hours ago, Aroxx said:

The idea was just to take major things apart and get a feel for working with tweezers and tiny screws and to get a better understanding of how the large components interact with each other. I think I accomplished that small goal and most importantly I had some fun with it. I've already noticed as I read a bit more that I'm understanding the diagrams and descriptions better even from just this small experiment.

Then ideally this is right. It's hard to get people to practice with broken watches. You often see people wanting to fix their broken watches. And then they and they end up with a broken watch and move on to breaking other watches were not fixing them. Oh and the other thing that people discover who are paying attention the YouTube videos make everything look easy the parts look big very big versus the reality of the situation. Especially if you take apart one of those ladies watches.

5 hours ago, Aroxx said:

I just didn't want to break

The unfortunate reality of watch repair all of us a broken things. With time the number of things you break should decrease. 

5 hours ago, Aroxx said:

It sounds like I should just start working on my practice movement next and not worry too much about breaking it.

Maybe you should think about having fun.

Let's break fun in the two categories those things that you're going to take apart and not worry about whether it ever goes back together again or whether it mysteriously falls on the floor whatever were not to worry about those. Then we reach the point of time you want to see something running which watches would be the best to practice on with the hopes that they may still run or will run after you take them apart and possibly clean etc.

so is looking at your picture you'll notice I circled some watches I skipped all the ladies watches for the most part. As yes the really tiny. What you want to be looking for is 17 jewel watches basically Swiss would be good a lot of times the Japanese get creative on how they do things but they still has a really decent 17 jewel watches. But I think Swiss would be better to go with a lot of the early Seiko is actually have conflicting Valley especially the non-automatic once and getting parts could be really a challenge versus the Swiss watch that they made a lot of them.

Sun damage I circled a bunch of movements in blue and you should take at least one of those apart and try to put it back together again. Notice all of those what do they have in common basically almost 0 jewel count. Plus no jewels is indication of inexpensive they also tend to have one plate covering everything is all the pivots and everything have to be perfect or it doesn't go together. So other than practicing taking apart and trying to put back together and getting a feel for how tiny things are I wouldn't call these desirable watches for practicing for the purpose of running every again. But it's still okay to practice on within the parameters

by the way hopefully this is making sense?

Then the two watches in pink both of those are 17+ jewel Swiss there may be some others lurking that I couldn't quite see and these are automatic watches. Self winding would be another term that means they add complications. Sometimes the automatic can be removed with a couple of screws other times not but ultimately these we watches it could take apart and put back together either with or without the automatic.

So try to remember to have fun. Your approach is right practice just holding things it's typically in the group where people don't want to practice they wanted his dig right in to repair and that's why they need something that's running to find out that accidents happen and you can see that the accidents happen. For the other stuff that you taking apart look at the pivots see that there there see if they're still there later on

 

 

[Aroxx]

2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Unfortunately I can understand this.

 

We end up with interesting problems here. First off let's look at the winning lottery ticket problem. In other words the probability of this occurring is the same as purchasing lottery ticket it's not like it's never going to happen is just unlikely to happen and you should be aware of it. That is that just because you purchased the watch cheaper or it came in a bag of watches or somebody gave you a watch doesn't necessarily mean it's a worthless watch. Or maybe even of the official watch out of the the trash because somebody threw it away doesn't necessarily mean it's worthless.

So for instance goodwill stores I took a quick look apparently their international. People donate lots of stuff with the watches probably breaking into three categories in fact all these watches will break in the three categories. Stuff that you really don't want to repair typically. Stuff that can be repaired perhaps like as 17 jewel Swiss watch something with jewels in its Swiss even Japanese watches but typically a 17 jewel Swiss watch. Then your lottery ticket watch unfortunately it will probably won't be worth millions but still have to pay attention and can't assume that everything is a victim to be Destroyed in the process of learning.

Yes there is always the stories of somebody came in once and said they bought a Omega chronograph for $45. Obviously at $45 goodwill recognized it had more value than being tossed a bag of watches. Or we had a Somebody bring in a nondescript square quartz watch a don't remember if it had any fake looking diamonds are not. They traded the watch for a Bulova watch that retail probably for a couple hundred dollars 400 may be of course we would get the watch wholesales of behalf that. So why would we trade is several hundred dollar watch for crappy quartz watch may be because it had that name Patek Philippe. Yes it was a broken quartz watch because it was a gold watch and the name and it was a legitimate watch that's the other problem here there are so many fakes. It was sent the factory of Asheville come back it should be running and eventually we will sell it for several thousand dollars.

Personally one of my amusements with this group was somebody purchasing I believe off of eBay an early Seiko watch what didn't say Seiko. They purchased the sheep so now it's a cheap watch they are practicing and they broke the pallet hole jewel because my interpretations basically because I felt like it. No problem is a Seiko except it's a vintage Seiko so it was a problem getting a new jewel. In the meantime I found out it wasn't like a big winning lottery ticket but was a several hundred dollar watch.

So having said that there is a tiny percentage of something valuable most of the stuff out there nobody's going to care a few destroy it. But the learning point of view it would be nice if the watch was not a victim and if it would live. It's very satisfying and watch repair if the watch runs after you service cents. Which is one of the unfortunate problems of people like me who work on vintage way getting it to run satisfactory isn't always instantaneous process and its met with a heck of a lot of frustrations. If you stay with something newer 17 jewels not an automatic as you noticed stay away from the ladies watches there really tiny you'll have a better chance of success

oh hell on the watches you have in your picture don't have 17 jewels and even though they have screws and they can be serviced they really weren't sort of meant to be serviced and that will probably lead to frustrations.

Then ideally this is right. It's hard to get people to practice with broken watches. You often see people wanting to fix their broken watches. And then they and they end up with a broken watch and move on to breaking other watches were not fixing them. Oh and the other thing that people discover who are paying attention the YouTube videos make everything look easy the parts look big very big versus the reality of the situation. Especially if you take apart one of those ladies watches.

The unfortunate reality of watch repair all of us a broken things. With time the number of things you break should decrease. 

Maybe you should think about having fun.

Let's break fun in the two categories those things that you're going to take apart and not worry about whether it ever goes back together again or whether it mysteriously falls on the floor whatever were not to worry about those. Then we reach the point of time you want to see something running which watches would be the best to practice on with the hopes that they may still run or will run after you take them apart and possibly clean etc.

so is looking at your picture you'll notice I circled some watches I skipped all the ladies watches for the most part. As yes the really tiny. What you want to be looking for is 17 jewel watches basically Swiss would be good a lot of times the Japanese get creative on how they do things but they still has a really decent 17 jewel watches. But I think Swiss would be better to go with a lot of the early Seiko is actually have conflicting Valley especially the non-automatic once and getting parts could be really a challenge versus the Swiss watch that they made a lot of them.

Sun damage I circled a bunch of movements in blue and you should take at least one of those apart and try to put it back together again. Notice all of those what do they have in common basically almost 0 jewel count. Plus no jewels is indication of inexpensive they also tend to have one plate covering everything is all the pivots and everything have to be perfect or it doesn't go together. So other than practicing taking apart and trying to put back together and getting a feel for how tiny things are I wouldn't call these desirable watches for practicing for the purpose of running every again. But it's still okay to practice on within the parameters

by the way hopefully this is making sense?

Then the two watches in pink both of those are 17+ jewel Swiss there may be some others lurking that I couldn't quite see and these are automatic watches. Self winding would be another term that means they add complications. Sometimes the automatic can be removed with a couple of screws other times not but ultimately these we watches it could take apart and put back together either with or without the automatic.

So try to remember to have fun. Your approach is right practice just holding things it's typically in the group where people don't want to practice they wanted his dig right in to repair and that's why they need something that's running to find out that accidents happen and you can see that the accidents happen. For the other stuff that you taking apart look at the pivots see that there there see if they're still there later on

 

 

Funny you mention it, I did win the lottery to some extent. I guess I need to back up a bit and describe how I got the movements. My mother-in-law collected a bunch of watches to use in art projects. She scraped a bunch in the past for this purpose so I can only shudder thinking of what she may have ruined. But anyway, I went through the whole pile a few months ago because I started looking through them one day and almost immediately found a really nice Elgin wristwatch. I excitedly sorted through everything taking out all of the mechanical stuff. Most of the pile was cheap fashion quartz stuff. Then I sorted runners and non-runners. I have a pretty good idea of the watch world and what’s worth what so I’m not naively trashing valuable movements. For example, one of the non-runners in that pile is this Movado Zenith which may be worth a few bucks to someone. If the watch was complete and the dial not in such poor condition it would be worth a lot more. 

 

This Elgin was my real score that I’m very excited about though. I found it in running condition, although losing time, and all functions working properly. It was very scratched up but I polished the crystal and looks like new now . Super cool bright orange seconds hand and beautiful patina on the tritium lume. The watch is currently with my watchmaker for service and hopefully I’ll have it back within a month or so. Sure it’s not a pre-moon Speedmaster or anything but I’m very excited about adding a cool watch to the collection. 

 

I’m definitely just trying to have some fun and learn more about watches along the way. I don’t have much free time so I’ll be going at a nice slow pace. I’ve been avoiding those automatics because of the additional complication. Now I’m looking forward to getting started on this practice movement!

[JohnR725]

7 hours ago, Aroxx said:

She scraped a bunch in the past for this purpose so I can only shudder thinking of what she may have ruined

Yes a very controversy over thing. With literally millions of worthless watches it really wouldn't matter but with some of those not being worthless yes that will upset people I remember seeing on another discussion group somebody saw a piece of jewelry made out of a pocket watch dial that he had been looking for for some time I don't think anybody died that day but the person was very unhappy. So the unfortunate problem of the assumption that the watches are worthless and no one should care but sometimes we care. Then of course there clock movements a lot of these are just swapped when people get there clock service because are so cheap and in real life those clocks can all be cannibalized and made into really interesting art projects just fine. But still if you're a watch collecting group ask them what they think about steam punk and step back.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steampunk

Then the zenith yes if they had a case is probably worth something conceivably even the movement could be worth something on eBay although it is missing one plate screw.

Oh and of course this does bring up the other itsy-bitsy problem with so many watches out there if you're going to a sizable box of them you could obviously pick out things by this looks like it should be worth something maybe but all kinds of obscure things are likely to slither by because you just don't know what it is. If you looked at the movement should bill a tell what was something decent but there are stuff out that is valuable but still will look like garbage because it's limited quantity or something. So certain degree it becomes impossible to identify everything.

Then the Elgin watch becomes interesting because I can use it for training purposes today and it's just interesting. When the American watch companies were changing towards the end of their life one of the things they did was imported watches. Elgin even had their own factory in Switzerland. But eventually companies like Elgin technically still exist but all that exists is the name. So your watch is a Swiss made with the name Elgin on it. It's possible if we knew exactly what was made as possible it actually was imported by the Elgin watch company towards the end but most the time it is after that doesn't really matter though as we can see something else of interest

so end up with all kinds of peculiar problems in watch repair like who made this watch? Yes I just answered the question it was made by Elgin because that's the name on the dial in the name on the  back but what if you want to purchase parts. Let's easy I circled something typically but not always under the balance wheel will be a symbol and number. Other times it can be found on the dial side of the movement and other times we have to do detective work to figure out what it is. But here is easy we get a number is symbol

Oh and by the way outstanding picture a lot of times were asking for stuff like this it takes a while to convince somebody actually give us what we need to figure out what they have. So consider all of this of introduction into finding parts because I'm not going cover every single little thing. So number and a symbol we can look at a book we can find out what the symbol means unless of course we already knew.

Now armed with a name and a number we go to a very useful website. You want to take some time to study the page here seemingly simple enough but you can also enter in stuff pay attention to you need letters in the beginning of whatever you enter in or you will not get which you want. Sometimes people end up with a part number and then they figure out the reason they couldn't find it originally was convicted and enter the right letters etc. but the easy way to get what we want is we know it's a font it's in the first category.

http://cgi.julesborel.com/

Then you'll eventually end up here

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=FF_909

Now we get to the really interesting things the link above we get a listing of parts that may be available if it's in pink is not available at least it's not supposed to be available sometimes it may still be available depending upon where you live in the planet there may be physical material houses if you cultivate friendships with them you can just call them up email or whatever it asked do you have this part and they might actually have the part. Not everything is listed on line cousins if you look at the description on their website of how they performed is only online but other companies even those in the US are online if you read the fine print and it says you need a part call them they might have it.

So basically get a list of parts but you click on the part and find out what else it is in. Oftentimes watch companies will use similar or the same part in a variety of watches or other people will purchase the movement and market with they are part number is another words this is a something and it will use the same parts it does not necessarily mean that it is the same watch it just means a particular part is found in these watches.

For instance let's pick an interesting part like the pallet fork arbor. Yes that's a part that pivots like the fall off limit on quite a regular basis because a really really really tiny. Typically people would just replace the pallet fork as it's the easiest way to do it but the arbors are cheap except your arbors discontinued? For which right now I find that quite hysterically funny? Yes sometimes I can have a weird sense a humor but what do I know that you do not and probably the rest the people in the group did not know about pallet fork arbors it's a pretty standard generic component and what exactly is this one used in?

The end up with two separate numbers usually one of the numbers is what I call a bestfit number and the other number may be the factory number. Then you get a description because it is a pallet fork arbor that she give you a description of what it is. Which becomes interesting because if you are a pallet fork arbor assortments yes the used to make those at one time you might actually already have one of these. Not that you have the tools to replace one but just saying it might exist. Then you see the list of watches the first three letters represents the company who has that in their watch. You'll notice because a pallet fork arbor is pretty generic it's a really really big long list. I guess it also tells you that people probably don't replace the arbors they just replace the pallet fork which is why the arbor's been discontinued.Then amusing I go down the list far enough Rolex even use this pallet fork arbor which is why find it amusing that it's been discontinued.

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=[^}D_Ds

Other things amusement when were here to separate mainsprings are listed which are basically identical. The first one appears to be specifically for this watch in other words this was probably packaged by them and these the watches that goes in. But since both mainsprings should be identical the second link should be identical the first but look at how many watches use that mainspring?I'm of the make you go find a link but when you get there you'll find these numbers MSS-WA33 That's your mainspring number + chicken take that the eBay's messy if you drop off the first three letters and you might find it . Then we get the size of the spring  MAINSPRING 1.20-.105-320 10.  Then if you're ordering from cousins and possibly other people you get this mainspring number it's a  very popular company for mainspring  GR 2936-X.

This is your quick crash course in finding parts which typically works much much better for relatively modern watches.

 

[Knebo]

On 7/24/2023 at 6:10 AM, Waggy said:

@Aroxx welcome to the addiction, as Yoda said "once you start down the dark side forever will it....". If I may offer some unsolicited advice, if I was starting out again I would start with a cheap runner to work on, this way, if it doesn't work at the end of the repair at least you know it was something you did. I see the logic in starting with a non-runner, as you have nothing to loose if you junk it, but you will never know if it was possible to repair it in the first place if you can't get it running.

The guys on here will help you out with any questions you have, as someone will have had the same issue you are seeing.

Good luck and welcome again! 

I second that approach. 

I worked on 2-3 non-runners at first. While useful, I spent countless hours on things that you won't do in 95% of regular servicing work (e.g. trying to bend a hairspring into shape). So the time I spent wasn't directed towards the things I needed to learn at the beginning. 

What really boasted my learning curve was working with a (badly) running movement. That really changed my trajectory. 

You can get running watches for little money. E.g. Soviet watches. 

[Aroxx]

Thanks for the quick crash course in finding parts. I was not aware of that website so it's very helpful.

4 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Oh and of course this does bring up the other itsy-bitsy problem with so many watches out there if you're going to a sizable box of them you could obviously pick out things by this looks like it should be worth something maybe but all kinds of obscure things are likely to slither by because you just don't know what it is. If you looked at the movement should bill a tell what was something decent but there are stuff out that is valuable but still will look like garbage because it's limited quantity or something. So certain degree it becomes impossible to identify everything.

Good point. Probably a decent amount of stuff that looks like "garbage" but somebody out there has been hunting for years to get parts.

4 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

When the American watch companies were changing towards the end of their life one of the things they did was imported watches. Elgin even had their own factory in Switzerland. But eventually companies like Elgin technically still exist but all that exists is the name. So your watch is a Swiss made with the name Elgin on it. It's possible if we knew exactly what was made as possible it actually was imported by the Elgin watch company towards the end but most the time it is after that doesn't really matter though as we can see something else of interest

Yes, I'm aware it is an Elgin in name only. Swiss made with the FHF (Fabrique d’Horlogerie de Fontainemelon) movement. FHF started out in 1793 and unfortunately was a victim (there's that word again  ) of the quartz crisis going bust in 1982. Regardless of the name on the dial I still think it's a really cool piece that I look forward to wearing and a solid movement in it as well.

4 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Oh and by the way outstanding picture a lot of times were asking for stuff like this it takes a while to convince somebody actually give us what we need to figure out what they have.

Thank you. I understand that. I spend a lot of time hanging out in a collectors forum where people drop in to check authenticity, spot redials, etc. Many times the provided pictures look like they were taken with a potato. I'm no photographer but it's not hard to get a decent, in-focus picture with an iPhone. Even a quick close up with an iPhone and a loupe like my Zenith pictures above. Once in awhile I have fun with my DSLR and a tripod and try my hand at watch photography. Another fun hobby that's hard to find time for. One can spend an hour and take 50 photos and maybe get 1 or 2 decent shots. Here are a couple I've taken recently. Maybe I should try getting some staged close-ups of watch internals. That might be a fun project.