Identifying a movement?

[Martyn58]

Hi everyone! My first post so please bear with me if I do something ‘wrong’.

I’ve been asked to have a look at my father in law’s Westminster chimes mantle clock which hasn’t been run for some decades. 
 

Can anyone help me identify the movement? Maker?

 

Thanks in advance!!

 

Martyn

[oldhippy]

I cant see the whole of the stamp by the number 12 bottom right, I can only see Made in, so can you tell me? A stab in the dark if it is made in England then as the barrels are detachable I would say it could be a Garrard. Is there any I D on the dial? What is the case like?

[Martyn58]

18 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Is there any I D on the dial? What is the case like?

Thanks for the reply. There’s no id on the dial. I’ll upload a photo. I’m in the UK so English might be the most likely origin. I don’t see the ‘Made in …’ stamp that you’re seeing so I’ll take a close up photo in the morning and upload it. 

[Martyn58]

9 hours ago, oldhippy said:

I cant see the whole of the stamp by the number 12 bottom right, I can only see Made in, so can you tell me?

Here’s a better picture but I don’t make out any wording?

[oldhippy]

Ha Ha Ha it must of been me seeing things that are not there, that's old age for you. The case is in the design as what is know as a napoleon hat. The clock hands are in the style called serpentine. Now I have spent more time looking at the movement I think it is German, so it was made before the WW2 I would date this to be around the the late 1920's to middle 1930's 

What do you intend to do? Are you thinking of taking the movement apart and cleaning it. It is complicated if its your first repair. You need to start on a timepiece or at least a strike.    

[Martyn58]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

What do you intend to do?

Good morning! Thanks for the info. Well, for sure it needs disassembly and cleaning … parts have far too much oil and it’s grimy. I’m able to do a basic service of an Enfield strike … all except removing the mainsprings. I’ve also ‘learned’ the ETA 6497 pocket watch movement and a Seiko NH35 … so it’s not exactly my first project. But I’m anxious. That’s why I was hoping to find some information. 
 

I think my main worry is : might there be particular alignment of parts to ensure correct quarters chiming?  Or can the mechanism sort itself out?  
 

And you’ve prompted another question : are you saying that the barrels can be removed without separating the plates?

 

With all the other movements that I ‘worked on’ before I had a duplicate donor movement for reference, and YT videos. With this I have nothing so it’s a bit daunting. 
 

Thanks in advance for your time, and to anyone else who pitches in. 

[oldhippy]

Yes all three barrels can be removed with out taking the movement apart, make sure you let all three springs down first. The train on the strike side and chime side have to all be it the correct position to work properly.  As you have knowledge of a Smith's Enfield strike, the strike on this movement will be much the same to you.   

[Martyn58]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

As you have knowledge of a Smith's Enfield strike, the strike on this movement will be much the same to you.   

Thanks for the info re barrels … I’m waiting for file handles to arrive to make a dedicated letdown key. I’m also getting closer to making my own spring winder. Wws. 
I’m not a quick worker … I’m in no hurry … so will spend some time just observing the running movement before I do anything. I guess I’m also anxious about getting the plates back together with more than 15 mobiles inside … remembering my experience with a Smiths pocket watch which only has a handful

[oldhippy]

Take plenty of photos. If you are going to remove clock mainsprings you need a good mainspring winder. 

[watchweasol]

Hi this clock will have the auto correct pawls on it which means that when the hands are set by hand the chimes get out of sync and re sync at the hour, these can be a pest to get right so suggest you read up on it as there are quite a few simultaneous actins take place.

[Martyn58]

22 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

suggest you read up on it as there are quite a few simultaneous actins take place.

Good advice, thanks!  I’ll take plenty of photos and shoot some video of the chime mechanism in operation. 

[oldhippy]

You have to have the wheels in the correct way to start with other wise the self correct will not work. 

[Martyn58]

On 6/24/2023 at 10:38 AM, oldhippy said:

make sure you let all three springs down first.

Barrels are fully let down … I’ll have a go at removing one tomorrow. But a rookie question about which clock plate to remove. On a Smiths it’s obvious but on this movement there are removable nuts on the under dial side. Removing those will allow the lugs ( for screwing movement into case ) to fall out of position. The back plate is held with screws. So nuts or screws?  Is there a convention as to which plate is lifted off?

 

Thanks in advance!

[oldhippy]

Remove the barrels and ratchet wheels, you should be able to get the barrels out. Undo the four screws that are on the back plate, then you can get to all the wheels between plates.