Rolex?

[RichardHarris123]

Found this on ebay, I'm curious about it.  Could it be a genuine Rolex.  I think the hallmark is 1915.

[tomh207]

I think it probably is. At this time Rolex was still based in London importing Swiss movements and using Dennison cases. 
 

Tom

[RichardHarris123]

Quite a  cool watch but very beat up.

[tomh207]

Definitely looks like it has a “history “

 

Tom

[RichardHarris123]

I'm not interested in buying it but how much do you think it's worth? 

[tomh207]

I wouldn’t have a clue tbh. I doubt it would be worth much as it looks like it was rebadged by Rolex for a customer jewlery store.

 

Tom

[RichardHarris123]

10 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

I wouldn’t have a clue tbh. I doubt it would be worth much as it looks like it was rebadged by Rolex for a customer jewlery store.

 

Tom

That's why I'm interested.  £20, £100 or £1000. No idea. 

[kd8tzc]

I wouldn't know a Rolex if it bit me, but It has that "Trench Watch" look to it.  I love the engraving on the back where it says "From Granddad to Steve".  It would be cool if that watch could talk and tell us all about where it came from (Granddad) and where it has been with Steve and whomever else after.

If I recall some history of the first trench watches, they were adapted from a ladies watch (pendant possibly) and didn't have the maker's name generally on them.  I think the Germans had the first ones, but that would have been in the late 1800's.  Didn't Rolex get founded around 1915, and if so, this could be a very early model.

 

[Nucejoe]

 Rolex would have made chronograde version of this caliber, usually adjusts to several positions, I see picture of some adjusted to  8 positions .

A high grade movement can spend weeks on bench getting adjusted by a master watchmaker, thats partially what makes them expensive.  high precision gears, finely polished and all that goes into a Rolex is missing here in this caliber, its a low grade version,  unadjusted ,  perhaps even lower grade hairspring on this movement.

The difference is in quality.  I don't know who made this movement. 

Even if you buy one that left the company adjusted sixty years ago, it s oscilator is likely to lack the poise it once had, when a pivot breaks not all repairmans can poise it as good as before. 

Not a master appraiser here, I think about £ 50.

 

 

 

 

[tomh207]

2 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

 Rolex would have made chronograde version of this caliber, usually adjusts to several positions, I see picture of some adjusted to  8 positions .

A high grade movement can spend weeks on bench getting adjusted by a master watchmaker, thats partially what makes them expensive.  high precision gears, finely polished and all that goes into a Rolex is missing here in this caliber, its a low grade version,  unadjusted ,  perhaps even lower grade hairspring on this movement.

The difference is in quality.  I don't know who made this movement. 

Even if you buy one that left the company adjusted sixty years ago, it s oscilator is likely to lack the poise it once had, when a pivot breaks not all repairmans can poise it as good as before. 

Not a master appraiser here, I think about £ 50.

 

 

 

 

I kinda disagree somewhat, Rolex in the early days used cordebert movements which were very high quality for the time. In addition Dennison were the premium case makers. It is likely a good quality watch however because it has been made for a jewellery shop it would be worth much less than if it had Rolex on the dial. I am not a watch appraiser so could not put any sort of price on it.

 

Tom

[Nucejoe]

3 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

I kinda disagree somewhat, Rolex in the early days used cordebert movements which were very high quality for the time. In addition Dennison were the premium case makers. It is likely a good quality watch however because it has been made for a jewellery shop it would be worth much less than if it had Rolex on the dial. I am not a watch appraiser so could not put any sort of price on it.

 

Tom

So we should analyse its heart beat to see if its a chronograde or not. 

 

[tomh207]

@Nucejoesorry I don’t understand what you are saying?

 

Tom

Ah I get it now Joe, Rolex did not always sell chronometer grade watches, that I believe is relatively recent in their history. At the time this watch was created Rolex was essentially a micro brand buying pieces and assembling. I think they have become a vertically integrated manufacturer in the past 20 or so years, they have used both cortebert and ETA movements in the past. Obviously they modified/finished those to suit. Rolex is a marketing company that happens to make watches.

 

Tom

[RichardHarris123]

This is what is so interesting about watches, many unknown's. The starting bid is £25 , I'll let you know what it goes for.  

[Nucejoe]

 Whoever made  or marketted it. its  worth more than £100  if this movement is a healthy chronograde, and  £ 50 if healthy but  not a chronograde. 

 

 

[RichardHarris123]

£122 currently with 6 days to go. 

[RichardHarris123]

It sold for £293.

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 3/10/2023 at 6:59 PM, tomh207 said:

@Nucejoesorry I don’t understand what you are saying?

 

Tom

Ah I get it now Joe, Rolex did not always sell chronometer grade watches, that I believe is relatively recent in their history. At the time this watch was created Rolex was essentially a micro brand buying pieces and assembling. I think they have become a vertically integrated manufacturer in the past 20 or so years, they have used both cortebert and ETA movements in the past. Obviously they modified/finished those to suit. Rolex is a marketing company that happens to make watches.

 

Tom

From some of the research I've made of Rolex i agree with you Tom. In their past not exactly the Billy big boll--ks of manufacturing.

16 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

It sold for £293.

  Some nice history with it. Seems like a self bought officers trench watch passed down to his grandson half way through ww1. Possibly killed in action ? 

[RichardHarris123]

Who knows but yes, very interesting. 

[Nucejoe]

On 3/10/2023 at 10:15 PM, tomh207 said:

I kinda disagree somewhat, Rolex in the early days used cordebert movements which were very high quality for the time. In addition Dennison were the premium case makers. It is likely a good quality watch however because it has been made for a jewellery shop it would be worth much less than if it had Rolex on the dial. I am not a watch appraiser so could not put any sort of price on it.

 

Tom

I am sure I have seen pictures of this very same movement adjusted in 8 positions, so if this pocket watch carried a Rolex badge it would have been adjusted. Dennisson may have  ordered non adjusted type or didn't want adjusted stamped on it ( possibly to pay less import tax/ custom charges) 

I guess Rolex owned this caliber and did manufactured it in several grades.

 

 

[RichardHarris123]

7 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

I am sure I have seen pictures of this very same movement adjusted in 8 positions, so if this pocket watch carried a Rolex badge it would have been adjusted. Dennisson may have  ordered non adjusted type or didn't want adjusted stamped on it ( possibly to pay less import tax/ custom charges) 

I guess Rolex owned this caliber and did manufactured it in several grades.

 

 

I thought adjusted was for the American Market. 

[tomh207]

43 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

I am sure I have seen pictures of this very same movement adjusted in 8 positions, so if this pocket watch carried a Rolex badge it would have been adjusted. Dennisson may have  ordered non adjusted type or didn't want adjusted stamped on it ( possibly to pay less import tax/ custom charges) 

I guess Rolex owned this caliber and did manufactured it in several grades.

 

 

Hi Joe,

thing is Rolex didn’t make movements before they moved to Switzerland, they bought movements from Switzerland and English cases from the Dennison case company who were reputed to be the very best cases. They moved in 1919 iirc. The inscription in the caseback is 1917 so prior to the move. 
 

some of this is from the official Rolex site, they used a movement manufacturer in Bienne, I have seen information that they only started making their own movements in 2004 when they acquired the manufacturer they were using, Aegler I think.

 

Tom

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, tomh207 said:

Hi Joe,

thing is Rolex didn’t make movements before they moved to Switzerland, they bought movements from Switzerland and English cases from the Dennison case company who were reputed to be the very best cases. They moved in 1919 iirc. The inscription in the caseback is 1917 so prior to the move. 
 

some of this is from the official Rolex site, they used a movement manufacturer in Bienne, I have seen information that they only started making their own movements in 2004 when they acquired the manufacturer they were using, Aegler I think.

 

Tom

Thats correct Tom. They even used Aegler's factory to advertise their watches. Gruen also used the same print lol.

[Nucejoe]

12 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I thought adjusted was for the American Market. 

The question is ;  is this movement adjusted or unadjusted?

Thats where the real value ( the grade) of this movement is.