Balance Staff

[arron]

Good evening,

I need to order a balance staff for my waltham 1888 16s, serial  4783027.  I'm looking at ofrei's catalogue and I don't see an exact match.  Should I keep looking elsewhere or should i pick the one which is closest from their list of options.  The catalogue says that the 2844 is the one for the model 1888.  It's fairly close but the distance from the roller seat to the pivot is off by .85 mm.  The 3251 is a bit closer for all the measurements but not the one ofrei says is correct.  I do have a lathe if it needs to be modified, but honestly I've not used it yet so would need to practice before using the intended part; it's not cheap at $18.  By the way, for my measurements I used a cheap digital caliper, so i'm not sure how precise they are.  I attached a table of the different model waltham staffs with their specs.  Thanks for any advice.  Arron.

[JohnR725]

As you're finding out cheap caliper isn't necessarily the best. I find a micrometer works quite well for a balance staff versus a caliper.

Then no matter what we get a replacement staff make sure it exactly measures the same as the original staff to avoid unpleasant surprises. A lot of times there can be variations in sizes

Then I've attached an image listing out balance staffs and you can see yours and the other ones are all friction. So you can only use the 2844 and of course just as a reminder that there are variations in pivots sizes.

Oh another place to look for balance staffs is eBay all kinds of people are selling balance staffs there.

 

 

[arron]

John, thank you for your reply.  I was able to find the 2844 model on ebay as you suggested and it's less expensive.    I went ahead and used my cheap micrometer and got a little more precise measurements but not far off from the original measurements and still not spot on with the measurements in your attachment or those of ofrei; I rarely use the micrometer because each time I do, I have to watch a YT video on how to use it.  ha ha.  I think i'll go ahead and order the 2844 and hope for the best.

The one question I have is whether there is a trick to getting the measurement from the roller seat to the pivot.  Because the shaft changes in diameter I can't put both measuring points (the staff roller seat and the pivot) in the jaws of the micrometer unless the staff is at an angle; and then that throws off the measurement of course.

By the way, the Tricities chapter of the nawcc  is having its first meeting, since the pandemic hit, this weekend, so I'm excited to go to my first meeting.  I hope all is well with you.

[JohnR725]

12 hours ago, arron said:

your attachment or those of ofrei

one of the problems with balance staffs are there does seem to be variations in sizing. I've had experience with best fit staffs which is what the material houses will typically sell brand-new where some of those are actually slightly oversize. my theory on oversize staffs is that you can always make it smaller. But a lot of people just get that staff and try to put it in and then things end up broken because you can't slide things on something that's too big.

I've seen this happen once with the Hamilton 992B at the friction staff there's only one staff and the best fit wouldn't go on because is physically too big. I've also had where I put a staff in its to loose my theory is that somebody put a staff in it was too big which is always bewildering because there's only supposed one size.

Oh and you like sizing confusions let me ceiling find a picture for you.

visit cross reference book of balance staffs it when somebody did was they went through an assortment and they measured all the staffs. Then in the back of the book there is references for basically the various manufacturers and their numbers and their stuff. Then some of the staffs in the very  back the book they have nice drawings of all the sizes. Much of notice there seems to be a little bit of variation zero there which is back to whatever you purchase has to agree with whatever was in they are to avoid unpleasant things

13 hours ago, arron said:

The one question I have is whether there is a trick to getting the measurement from the roller seat to the pivot.  Because the shaft changes in diameter I can't put both measuring points (the staff roller seat and the pivot) in the jaws of the micrometer unless the staff is at an angle; and then that throws off the measurement of course.

okay when you're measuring lengths the micrometers and not a good way to do it. Micrometer really works best for diameters and as you can see the diameters are all close to wherever the part goes.

13 hours ago, arron said:

Tricities chapter of the nawcc  is having its first meeting

tri-cities how exciting. When I was trying to make the chapters website that I do like chapter 50 findable one of things I tried really hard to do is not to use things like metropolitan area. It's amazing for chapter websites when they say we serve the metropolitan area but they don't say where. But I'll take a wild guess that I know where the Tri-Cities are and yes looking at the meeting notices because I set it out to everybody in the state and one of the chapters was trying to get a group road trip I don't know how successful they were with  that.

what I find interesting with this state of course is that in the early days of the chapters Seattle would regularly go to Portland and that's before the freeway existed I doubt it will have think about how long that would take. Portland people would come to Seattle and of course everyone would head east. Way back then with not as sophisticated automobiles typically no freeways they thought nothing about spending the entire weekend going to a meeting. Whereas today it's hard to get anybody to go anywhere

the other one was always amusing our local AWCI chapter at least at the time it was to members used to come over from Kennewick. I think they left Friday night and not sure if they slept someplace and then they went back. But there were really enthusiastic they both rose up to be presidents of the Association. I'm reasonably sure the dad is no one with a team is old back then but Jim is probably still around but then we dropped our AWCI affiliation. But we still have meetings in Seattle open to anyone who likes watch repair.

So yes mass-produced American pocket watches the parts are supposed to be machine made interchangeability rules and well yes there is sizing issues were variations. My favorite is Elgin I believe they have four different staff types for one different staff number and in each of the different types have about four different pivots sizes.

 

[arron]

John, that history of watchmakers in the NW is so interesting.  There is probably a book written about (and if not there should be) how the social fabric of society has changed over the years (dramatically again over just the last three years)--sometimes for the better and sometimes the worse.  As a lawyer, there was a time in our small community when the doctors and lawyers would have social gatherings together, eat, drink, play golf, and just socialize.   That hasn't happened for quite some time now and as a result i think the two professions sometimes view the other as the enemy; that's too bad.  Since i just retired, who knows, maybe i'll make it up to seattle for a meeting sometime.

[JohnR725]

9 minutes ago, arron said:

that history of watchmakers in the NW is so interesting.

yes interesting things in the state we used to have three professional schools teaching watch repair only one is left. Then the North Seattle school used to have a Thursday night class and that is now become an independent school teaching watch and clock repair hobbyists. They A very many schools like that across the US

the watch and clock collectors that would be the really interesting thing of somebody write a book on because quite fascinating.  I know I did the history of chapter 50 I also kept track of the nationals numbers of members and you can see how the national slowly went up to and from what the peak number is and now it's a fraction of itself. But in the peak days all the local clubs and everything just excelled. The meetings I know for chapter 50 before actually joined got so big they could meet in houses were potlucks anymore they needed to find a permanent home now they've shrunk where they probably could go back to houses but.

18 minutes ago, arron said:

doctors and lawyers would have social gatherings together, eat, drink, play golf, and just socialize.

I suspect when you talk about that time span that was also probably in time span when everybody belong to clubs. So we have a whole interesting watch collecting took off socializing going to meetings took off clubs were out there and and the whole thing just as faded away away for variety reasons.

Oh and that we even used to have a Museum in Bellingham filled with watches and clocks unfortunately or fortunately depending upon point of view it's relocated to California.

I did the history for chapter 50 wants and was going through all the past issues looking for meeting notes and stuff out some Track of the national numbers it was interesting how high the membership the national became and then slowly just withered away.

then I'll be curious as to what you think about your meeting.