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[RichardHarris123]

Hello all. 

It's been a while but I'm back.  I've haven't been on for ages due to all sorts of boring a trivial things. 

I have seen a pallet like this before, what do you think.  A cage? Around the escape. 

[Marc]

I've never seen one quite like that, but I have seen plenty with horns on the escape wheel side, quite elaborate ones too.

One theory for this design is that it is to poise the pallet fork, i.e. equal mass on each side of the pivot, to help reduce positional variances. Whether or not that is the case I have no idea, although I can see the thinking behind it.

Yours though looks almost as though there is more mass on the escape wheel side with that great big hoop.

[Nucejoe]

I think its jules jurgensen escapement, concur with Marc its to poise the fork. 

[oldhippy]

The escape wheel is nothing like it for it to be a jurgensen escapement. What is the roller like on the balance? 

Here is a photo of a jurgensen escapement.

[RichardHarris123]

Any ideas then  

[Neverenoughwatches]

55 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Any ideas then  

Marc and Nucejoe's reasoning to balance the fork seems sound. Although the split ring design seems oversize for that. Unusual design that could risk damaging the escape pivots when removing the escape lever

3 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Hello all. 

It's been a while but I'm back.  I've haven't been on for ages due to all sorts of boring a trivial things. 

I have seen a pallet like this before, what do you think.  A cage? Around the escape. 

So what is this in Rich ? Besides the lever design, the perlage and chamfered lever bridge is indicating something of quality.

[RichardHarris123]

More pictures tomorrow, unfortunately movement only. It was pin set.  No makers mark but serial numbers.  I think it was a quality watch. 

Plenty to come, just got 50 watches for ££200 , all could be on the 404. Six fakes thrown in for free, very poor quality.  I've binned 4 of them already. 

[tomh207]

I remember seeing somewhere that a pallet fork with a ring that went over the escape wheel was an alternative mechanism to banking pins , could it be this?

 

Tom

[Neverenoughwatches]

15 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

I remember seeing somewhere that a pallet fork with a ring that went over the escape wheel was an alternative mechanism to banking pins , could it be this?

 

Tom

That also crossed my mind Tom but then i ruled it out thinking that potential overbanking would damage the escape wheel pivots. Just seems an elaborate alternative to an already simple and robust design.

7 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Hello all. 

It's been a while but I'm back.  I've haven't been on for ages due to all sorts of boring a trivial things. 

I have seen a pallet like this before, what do you think.  A cage? Around the escape. 

Thinking outside of the box, does it become useful outside of the watch.  An aid for adjustment of the pallet stones.  Probably just a watch folly, lets build it that way because we can and it looks cool and interesting .

[RichardHarris123]

20 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

That also crossed my mind Tom but then i ruled it out thinking that potential overbanking would damage the escape wheel pivots. Just seems an elaborate alternative to an already simple and robust design.

Thinking outside of the box, does it become useful outside of the watch.  An aid for adjustment of the pallet stones.  Probably just a watch folly, lets build it that way because we can and it looks cool and interesting .

Yes, no banking pins.

[Neverenoughwatches]

39 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Yes, no banking pins.

I'm still not convinced, why would the maker risk knocking against the escape wheel ? Seems a good way to break a pivot.  It was actually my second thought though. 

48 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Yes, no banking pins.

What about the sides of the mainplate where the lever sits, wouldnt this provide the banking.

[RichardHarris123]

On 2/5/2023 at 6:18 PM, oldhippy said:

The escape wheel is nothing like it for it to be a jurgensen escapement. What is the roller like on the balance? 

Here is a photo of a jurgensen escapement.

 

5 hours ago, ColinC said:

I did start going down the rabbit hole of looking for a spare balance wheel / hairspring....  And while it would be nice to own and maybe even wear the watch I first learned on, I only bought the watch as something to learn on and it has done that job well.

I have also considered buying myself an ST36 along with a case, dial and hands (or I saw a complete watch on aliexpress with the same setup that was recommended was a good learning tool)

 

21 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I'm still not convinced, why would the maker risk knocking against the escape wheel ? Seems a good way to break a pivot.  It was actually my second thought though. 

What about the sides of the mainplate where the lever sits, wouldnt this provide the banking.

No banking pins anywhere, it must be instead off the pins. Wierd I know. 

[Marc]

1 hour ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Yes, no banking pins

No need for banking pins. The pallet passes through the gap (red arrow)and it's the edges of the gap (green arrow) that provide the banking.

[RichardHarris123]

6 minutes ago, Marc said:

No need for banking pins. The pallet passes through the gap (red arrow)and it's the edges of the gap (green arrow) that provide the banking.

Yes, yourcorrect. So the circular bit must be for poise. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

26 minutes ago, Marc said:

No need for banking pins. The pallet passes through the gap (red arrow)and it's the edges of the gap (green arrow) that provide the banking.

Agree with that marc, the banking therory for the extra lever construction doesn't seem to fit. I still think its just an elaborate design. John or nickelsilver i think is needed for some confirmation.

[oldhippy]

What type of balance and hairspring does it have.  

[RichardHarris123]

The balance 

[oldhippy]

Nothing abnormal about the balance complete. That escape wheel part I think is just for decoration. It adds a tiny bit of weight but that is all. 

[RichardHarris123]

Agree and agree that's it's probably a folly but interesting though.