AS 1906 “Dead hands” friction pinion issue?

[Walther2824]

A newbie here. I’ve serviced an AS 1906 /date Vulcain manual automatic.

hands don’t move but second hands and balance running very robust.

Is this a third wheel or friction pinion issue? 
Are there available (working) parts available? 
Any and all suggestions are appreciated

thanks 

 

[HectorLooi]

Yes. Sounds like it's a loose cannon pinion problem. Does the crown feel very loose when adjusting the time?

Cousins has stock for two different heights of the cannon pinion. You'll need to measure the height of the original cannon pinion. 

Most cannon pinions can be tightened. Can you post some photos of yours, so that we can advise you further.

[Walther2824]

Hi and yes it’s really easy to move the hands… crazy easy in fact, to turn the crown… 
I have a donor movement that’s a day/ date AS 1906 and this is a date only AS 1902/03 I needed the seconds wheel… and it has a shorter center wheel canon pinion and hour wheel that stays loose on both using a plate.

ill post pics of the parts in question and I think you’ll days it’s the third wheel friction-fit  canon pinion. I’ll test the donor first and see if it’s any better.

 

thanks for reading my post!!!

 

This is the wheel that Mark did on his coverage of the AS 1900 service so it may be above my capabilities so if I can buy a new one I’d prefer to do that if this is the issue

thnx

 

[JohnR725]

I'm attaching the parts list so you can see what the parts look like

5 hours ago, Walther2824 said:

third wheel friction-fit  canon pinion.

it looks like from the parts list it's not the third wheel 201/1 which is labeled large driving wheel.  then it's part number 240 which I'll let you read its own peculiar name. So yes their separate components we should build a separate and possibly there is a way of typing them because they are separate components. I've expanded the image of the parts list and snipped it out so you can see the parts better

 

939_AS 1906, 1916.pdf

[Walther2824]

Awesome and thanks for looking it up. Yeah it is actually two parts. Very interesting.

Maybe all I might need is the friction pinion and not both….

 

I’ll be playing with this today and post what I’ve discovered…

 

Thanks again!! 

 

This is the wheel that Mark did on his coverage of the AS 1900 service so it may be above my capabilities so if I can buy a new one I’d prefer to do that if this is the issue

thnx

 

[Walther2824]

Seems like there are plenty of the friction wheel and canon pinions out there but not sure they are in working shape. Both of mine don’t have enough friction to function. I’ve asked a watchmaker and he may have a working one and I may send one out for a look by another experienced watchmaker.
Seems like a serious design flaw that appears in many many AS movements. If I could buy a new one of each part 240 and 210/1 I’d do so. Fingers crossed

[JerHetirck]

Found this post searching out a solution to the same problem on AS calibre 1916

Is there a way to fix this, other than attempting to find replacement parts? 

[Fissile]

On 2/7/2023 at 4:09 PM, JerHetirck said:

Found this post searching out a solution to the same problem on AS calibre 1916

Is there a way to fix this, other than attempting to find replacement parts? 

Yes it can be fixed but a new wheel and pinion assembly is so cheap it's hardly worth your time to repair unless you've got the tools needed lying around.  

Step one: Remove the friction pinion from the wheel.  There are a number of methods to achieve this step.  You can carefully pry the pinion off with hand levers.   Or you can use a roller remover.  

Step two: Clean the parts. 

Step three: Place an appropriate size broach into the friction pinion and use a cannon pinion tightening tool to place the proper crimp on the pinion.  

Step four: Use the appropriate grease to lube the wheel staff. 

Step Five: Press the friction pinion back onto the wheel using a staking tool. 

 

Like I said, that's a lot of work for a part that can be purchased new for about $10.  

[GuyMontag]

I don't know, it's pretty easy to tighten with a pair of nail clippers. In fact, the friction pinion doesn't have a lot of length to it, I couldn't use my staking set or the Bergeron cannon pinion tool. Nail clippers did the job fine though. You're going to have to clean and grease regardless, so not really much more work at all.

 

Edited November 18, 2024 by GuyMontag