Does this movement sound normal?

[livefastdieold]

Hello, fixing a Hamilton 988 at the moment and I'm an absolute beginner. 

The watch wasn't running but I've managed to fix the hairspring and now the watch runs again. 

However, as much as I tried to regulate the time, the watch runs fast (about 5 min a day). I've maxed out of how much I can push the regulator. 

So, I was assuming it might be a magnetization issue.. but I've just noticed the ticking noise is a little odd. 

Does this ticking noise sound normal? Or would simply using a demagnetizer will do the trick?

Sharing a link since I cannot upload audio files here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AWbrWZ-GPQ6zJAOHep3vZE4UeBxXVQ8V/view?usp=sharing

[Nucejoe]

Sounds galloping,   

Clean the hairspring and  demag.  

What happens when you move the beat adjustor arm?  

Intermitenet sticking is easy to miss by visual inspection,  you might need to take a    slo mo     vid of the coil  to see intermittent sticking.

Good luck

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 5/29/2022 at 2:53 AM, livefastdieold said:

Hello, fixing a Hamilton 988 at the moment and I'm an absolute beginner. 

The watch wasn't running but I've managed to fix the hairspring and now the watch runs again. 

However, as much as I tried to regulate the time, the watch runs fast (about 5 min a day). I've maxed out of how much I can push the regulator. 

So, I was assuming it might be a magnetization issue.. but I've just noticed the ticking noise is a little odd. 

Does this ticking noise sound normal? Or would simply using a demagnetizer will do the trick?

Sharing a link since I cannot upload audio files here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AWbrWZ-GPQ6zJAOHep3vZE4UeBxXVQ8V/view?usp=sharing

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Hmm not sure . Sounds like its beating a little irregular. Generally if the watch is running fast it would be due to a dirty hs or a hs that has become magnetised making the coil stick together slightly when contracting and releasing. Try cleaning and a demagnetise first. Then watch the hs breathe in and out when its oscillating preferably under a scope if you have one , you should notice an issue visually. Check it for flat and trueness inside the watch while its running. It is possible the hs is too short, i have a couple of old ones that broke on me that i had to repin. They run approx five mins a day too fast with full slow regulation. So you may need to hunt for another hs if this is the case. Its possible to make adjustment to the balance wheel if there are adjustment screws, but i would suggest trying everything else and have this as a final resort. Ask for more advice here before you attempt this.

[Kalanag]

If you were able to record the sound that well you might also be able to use a cheap timegrapher app to evaluate beat error and amplitude. The beat error sounds to be huge!

Edit: I just let my timegrapher app analyse your audio file. It says +540s/d and 12ms beat error! May be wrong but …

Edited May 29, 2022 by Kalanag

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 5/29/2022 at 8:19 AM, Kalanag said:

If you were able to record the sound that well you might also be able to use a cheap timegrapher app to evaluate beat error and amplitude. The beat error sounds to be huge!

Edit: I just let my timegrapher app analyse your audio file. It says +540s/d and 12ms beat error! May be wrong but …

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I played it to my timegrapher,  for the few seconds i got it to analyse it was all over the place as well.

  On 5/29/2022 at 2:53 AM, livefastdieold said:

Hello, fixing a Hamilton 988 at the moment and I'm an absolute beginner. 

The watch wasn't running but I've managed to fix the hairspring and now the watch runs again. 

However, as much as I tried to regulate the time, the watch runs fast (about 5 min a day). I've maxed out of how much I can push the regulator. 

So, I was assuming it might be a magnetization issue.. but I've just noticed the ticking noise is a little odd. 

Does this ticking noise sound normal? Or would simply using a demagnetizer will do the trick?

Sharing a link since I cannot upload audio files here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AWbrWZ-GPQ6zJAOHep3vZE4UeBxXVQ8V/view?usp=sharing

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Post up some pictures of the balance running, we may apot something obvious happening 

[JohnR725]

  On 5/29/2022 at 2:53 AM, livefastdieold said:

Hamilton 988

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Always nice if you give us a picture of the watch. Just in case we all didn't instantly recognize this as a ladies wristwatch? Or is it a pocket watch?

  On 5/29/2022 at 2:53 AM, livefastdieold said:

The watch wasn't running but I've managed to fix the hairspring and now the watch runs again. 

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In addition the fixing they hairspring anything else you did to the watch? Are there any other observations like when was the last cleaned?

[Nucejoe]

  On 5/29/2022 at 8:19 AM, Kalanag said:

 

Edit: I just let my timegrapher app analyse your audio file. It says +540s/d and 12ms beat error! May be wrong but …

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There you are , huge beat error, so move the beat adjustor arm to reduce the beat error, it may sound alright then, If no joy, its got more issue with hairspring or roller/ impulse. 

Kalanag, I am proud to extend special welcome to experienced/ knowlegable and helpful members like yourself.

Regds

 

 

 

 

 

[livefastdieold]

Thank you so much everyone.

I just ordered a demagnetizer and a watch crystal lifter (I thought I fixed it so I installed a new crystal but it's not coming off by hand, whereas the previous crystal did since it was a little bit cracked).

Meanwhile I will download the Timegrapher app. I was hesitant downloading because of the bad reviews but maybe it will be useful for the time being.. 

I will keep this thread updated! 

[JohnR725]

  On 5/29/2022 at 1:53 PM, Nucejoe said:

There you are , huge beat error, so move the beat adjustor arm to reduce the beat error, it may sound alright then, If no joy, its got more issue with hairspring or roller/ impulse. 

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Yes super easy fix except?

  On 5/29/2022 at 2:53 AM, livefastdieold said:

Hamilton 988

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I don't suppose you can give us a picture for those of us who don't instantaneously recognize the type of movement based on that description you are giving us?

[livefastdieold]

Updating this thread.

I tried demagnetizing but no luck. I'm assuming it has something to do with the hairspring. 

I took the hairspring out to straighten it out as much as I can, then put it back in.. but length of where I've locked the hairspring might have been too far from the escapement. I say this because it took a weird angle to fit the balance cock back in the watch in order to make it run again (180 degrees). Maybe it's using too much tension of the hairspring?

The watch still "gallops"  in every position for the regulation pointer. 

Please let me know if this makes any sense as I'm not too sure if I'm explaining the situation very well. 

A photo is attached below and this is a video of the movement as promised. Thank again for everything! 

P.S. Also noticed this is a cal.688 and not 988..

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 5/30/2022 at 10:53 PM, livefastdieold said:

Updating this thread.

I tried demagnetizing but no luck. I'm assuming it has something to do with the hairspring. 

I took the hairspring out to straighten it out as much as I can, then put it back in.. but length of where I've locked the hairspring might have been too far from the escapement. I say this because it took a weird angle to fit the balance cock back in the watch in order to make it run again (180 degrees). Maybe it's using too much tension of the hairspring?

The watch still "gallops"  in every position for the regulation pointer. 

Please let me know if this makes any sense as I'm not too sure if I'm explaining the situation very well. 

A photo is attached below and this is a video of the movement as promised. Thank again for everything! 

P.S. Also noticed this is a cal.688 and not 988..

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Hi matey. You really need to have it giving out some running feedback on a timegrapher or an app at least. Then you can make some timing and beat adjustments. It is possible to check and set the watch for correct beat resonably accurately without a timegrapher. Its not difficult to adjust its beat by eye if you have some experience. Have you moved the beat adjuster by accident do you know ?

[JohnR725]

  On 5/30/2022 at 10:53 PM, livefastdieold said:

The watch still "gallops"  in every position for the regulation pointer.

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we got a get our terminology right otherwise it leads to confusion does the watch sound like it's galloping? Does it only sound like that one is wound up tight after its run for a few hours is still making the galloping noise?

Then under the balance wheel I see some numbers it be nice to get a picture of those. This is a modern Hamilton in other words it's not really a Hamilton it's just a name Hamilton on the watch it's really a Swiss watch. The numbers under the balance rim might tell us what it is.

  On 5/31/2022 at 1:02 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

You really need to have it giving out some running feedback on a timegrapher or an app at least.

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no no no we can't have that that means I would have to retire my crystal ball. You would have to quit staring at tea leaves or whatever you used to deduce whatever the problem is having a timing machine or an app providing the app actually worked would just make things too simple for all of us that just isn't acceptable at all.

  On 5/30/2022 at 10:53 PM, livefastdieold said:

I took the hairspring out to straighten it out as much as I can, then put it back in.. but length of where I've locked the hairspring might have been too far from the escapement. I say this because it took a weird angle to fit the balance cock back in the watch in order to make it run again (180 degrees). Maybe it's using too much tension of the hairspring?

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terminology problem I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here?

  On 5/29/2022 at 2:53 AM, livefastdieold said:

I'm an absolute beginner.

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there certain problems with learning watch repair. First despite what you might've heard cleaning doesn't fix everything. Seconds knowledge is required. The problem with lacking knowledge is diagnosing problems requires knowledge of how the watch works all of the watch and if you have no experience with watches that means your diagnostic skills are going to suck. Then acting on your diagnostic skills which need perfecting usually will lead us down a path of well not necessarily the best path to be going down

this is where initially when you're only running fast the timing machine or app providing it actually works a lot of them don't would've been really helpful. Now we have the initial problem and whatever you've done to try to fix the problem in which case I don't quite understand what you meant in the paragraph above that I quoted which I don't quite understand?

 

[Nucejoe]

Did you remove the hairspring in order to sort it out?   

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 5/31/2022 at 3:11 AM, JohnR725 said:

no no no we can't have that that means I would have to retire my crystal ball. You would have to quit staring at tea leaves or whatever you used to deduce whatever the problem is having a timing machine or an app providing the app actually worked would just make things too simple for all of us that just isn't acceptable at all.

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Lol John. You do make me laugh

[Kalanag]

  On 5/30/2022 at 10:53 PM, livefastdieold said:

Updating this thread.

I tried demagnetizing but no luck. I'm assuming it has something to do with the hairspring. 

I took the hairspring out to straighten it out as much as I can, then put it back in.. but length of where I've locked the hairspring might have been too far from the escapement. I say this because it took a weird angle to fit the balance cock back in the watch in order to make it run again (180 degrees). Maybe it's using too much tension of the hairspring?

The watch still "gallops"  in every position for the regulation pointer. 

Please let me know if this makes any sense as I'm not too sure if I'm explaining the situation very well. 

A photo is attached below and this is a video of the movement as promised. Thank again for everything! 

P.S. Also noticed this is a cal.68

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The photo clearly shows that:

(1) the stud carrier arm is in the most extended and likely wrong position

(2) the hairspring is heavily bent and cann‘t work correctly anymore

[livefastdieold]

  On 5/31/2022 at 7:25 AM, Kalanag said:

The photo clearly shows that:

(1) the stud carrier arm is in the most extended and likely wrong position

(2) the hairspring is heavily bent and cann‘t work correctly anymore

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After adjusting the stud carrier arm, the watch sounds and runs normally. I found a new hairspring for this movement on eBay that I'll purchase, but meanwhile I'll leave it for a day to see how accurate it runs as I don't have a timegrapher. 

  On 5/31/2022 at 3:11 AM, JohnR725 said:

Does it only sound like that one is wound up tight after its run for a few hours is still making the galloping noise?

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Hi John, I've attached the sound of the watch on top this thread. I'll attach the link here again as you may have missed it: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AWbrWZ-GPQ6zJAOHep3vZE4UeBxXVQ8V/view?usp=sharing

The term "galloping" was used by another member here that made sense because it did sound like it was "galloping". Sorry I don't know the profession terminology for this as I'm a complete beginner, but I'm trying my best. 

  On 5/31/2022 at 6:11 AM, Nucejoe said:

Did you remove the hairspring in order to sort it out?   

 

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I did and it seems to help! Although it was really hard to get it completely straight, at least the watch seems like running normally now. I have a feeling I might need a new hairspring though. 

[JohnR725]

  On 5/31/2022 at 9:23 PM, livefastdieold said:

I found a new hairspring for this movement on eBay that I'll purchase,

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hopefully that hairspring is on a balance wheel? Then you replacing the balance wheel with that hairspring. Typically on modern watches hairsprings do not interchange with other balance wheels because of major timing issues. Which is why typically if you need a hairspring it's a balance complete not a separate hairspring.

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 5/31/2022 at 7:25 AM, Kalanag said:

The photo clearly shows that:

(1) the stud carrier arm is in the most extended and likely wrong position

(2) the hairspring is heavily bent and cann‘t work correctly anymore

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is there a start to the end curve ?     outer coils look to be touching , hairspring does look a bit beat up

  On 5/31/2022 at 9:34 PM, JohnR725 said:

Typically on modern watches hairsprings do not interchange with other balance wheels because of major timing issues.

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can another hairspring be made to work on the balance wheel ?

[Nucejoe]

  On 5/31/2022 at 9:23 PM, livefastdieold said:

I did and it seems to help! Although it was really hard to get it completely straight, at least the watch seems like running normally now. I have a feeling I might need a new hairspring though. 

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So the oscilator might be out of beat. Heres a vid by Mark on the subject.

  Your oscilator might also be out of beat if stud position has changed as the result of sorting out  the hairpsring coil.

  On 6/1/2022 at 8:31 PM, Nucejoe said:

So the oscilator might be out of beat. Heres a vid by Mark on the subject.

  Your oscilator might also be out of beat if stud position has changed as the result of sorting out  the hairpsring coil.

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Replacing hairspring is not an easy option, as pairing a spring with a balance requires special tools and a bit of skil.

[livefastdieold]

Surprisingly the watch keeps great time. It runs 5 sec fast a day. 

I'm planning to keep my eye out to buy a used balance wheel with a hairspring in good condition. 

Thank you everyone for helping me out!