The watch bug bit me (help with a 1197)

[crazydiamond282]

Dear Watch Repair Community,

Crazydiamond282 here from Boston, MA. I haven't ever fixed anything in my life before, and I'm crazy about watches. So, this seems to be a good hobby for a total beginner.

So, the vintage watch bug bit me recently, and following common-sense advice, I purchased a non-working handwind watch for $5. This watch was not winding or ticking in any way, although I could set the time.

When I opened the watch, even as an absolute beginner, I could tell that the balance was broken. I found two videos on Youtube that serviced this type of movement (1197), but both were in languages I do not comprehend. I only possess a screw-driver set and some loupes (no oils or watch-cleaning machines), and my only wish from this first experiment is to get something moving (like in this moment from the video servicing the 1197 movement: https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxcL54l3RwsLsn25clQhQMUso2gsJd8rcP). I haven't succeeded in it so far.

I inspected the mainspring barrel and the mainspring was not broken. I was (somehow) able to wind it back together and put it back inside. I removed some gears from the gear-train but, with just the mainspring and center-gear, nothing moves (although I believe I am able to wind it).

Here are some photos of front and back : https://imgur.com/a/7BPErKt

Just by eye-balling, could you give me some debugging advice?

Edited May 5, 2022 by crazydiamond282
Added images, introduced myself

[Neverenoughwatches]

30 minutes ago, crazydiamond282 said:

I haven't ever fixed anything in my life before, and I'm crazy about watches. So, this seems to be a good hobby for a total beginner.

 Hello CD. Haha. Have you any idea what you are letting yourself in for ? Seriously mate, it's fantastic and I love it.

30 minutes ago, crazydiamond282 said:

So, the vintage watch bug bit me recently, and following common-sense advice, I purchased a non-working handwind watch for $5. This watch was not winding or ticking in any way, although I could set the time.

 

Hello brother . Swiss vintage was my start point and remains my favourite nine months on. So many brands and variations. I love them, anything from 30s up to 70s .

30 minutes ago, crazydiamond282 said:

Dear Watch Repair Community,

Crazydiamond282 here from Boston, MA. I haven't ever fixed anything in my life before, and I'm crazy about watches. So, this seems to be a good hobby for a total beginner.

So, the vintage watch bug bit me recently, and following common-sense advice, I purchased a non-working handwind watch for $5. This watch was not winding or ticking in any way, although I could set the time.

When I opened the watch, even as an absolute beginner, I could tell that the balance was broken. I found two videos on Youtube that serviced this type of movement (1197), but both were in languages I do not comprehend. I only possess a screw-driver set and some loupes (no oils or watch-cleaning machines), and my only wish from this first experiment is to get something moving (like in this moment from the video servicing the 1197 movement: https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxcL54l3RwsLsn25clQhQMUso2gsJd8rcP). I haven't succeeded in it so far.

I inspected the mainspring barrel and the mainspring was not broken. I was (somehow) able to wind it back together and put it back inside. I removed some gears from the gear-train but, with just the mainspring and center-gear, nothing moves (although I believe I am able to wind it).

Here are some photos of front and back : https://imgur.com/a/7BPErKt

Just by eye-balling, could you give me some debugging advice?

Be obsessive about taking photos at every stage and every part you're remove, trust me you will need them even if you think  you won't. 

Edited May 6, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[crazydiamond282]

I cannot explain why I chose this hobby. Maybe it chose me. 

I tinkered a bit with this watch and probably removed some parts that I shouldn't have. But when I realized the keyless-works engage and disengage, allowing you to set the time in one mode, and wind it in the other, it gave me so much joy. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

44 minutes ago, crazydiamond282 said:

Dear Watch Repair Community,

Crazydiamond282 here from Boston, MA. I haven't ever fixed anything in my life before, and I'm crazy about watches. So, this seems to be a good hobby for a total beginner.

So, the vintage watch bug bit me recently, and following common-sense advice, I purchased a non-working handwind watch for $5. This watch was not winding or ticking in any way, although I could set the time.

When I opened the watch, even as an absolute beginner, I could tell that the balance was broken. I found two videos on Youtube that serviced this type of movement (1197), but both were in languages I do not comprehend. I only possess a screw-driver set and some loupes (no oils or watch-cleaning machines), and my only wish from this first experiment is to get something moving (like in this moment from the video servicing the 1197 movement: https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxcL54l3RwsLsn25clQhQMUso2gsJd8rcP). I haven't succeeded in it so far.

I inspected the mainspring barrel and the mainspring was not broken. I was (somehow) able to wind it back together and put it back inside. I removed some gears from the gear-train but, with just the mainspring and center-gear, nothing moves (although I believe I am able to wind it).

Here are some photos of front and back : https://imgur.com/a/7BPErKt

Just by eye-balling, could you give me some debugging advice?

That looks like an oris ? Always best to check you have power in the watch even before you disassemble. So you really need to establish its condition first, so that anything you do doesn't change what you have.

11 minutes ago, crazydiamond282 said:

I cannot explain why I chose this hobby. Maybe it chose me. 

I tinkered a bit with this watch and probably removed some parts that I shouldn't have. But when I realized the keyless-works engage and disengage, allowing you to set the time in one mode, and wind it in the other, it gave me so much joy. 

Good one my friend. This hobby did choose me and Mr curiosity again like me and just about everyone on here.

11 minutes ago, crazydiamond282 said:

I cannot explain why I chose this hobby. Maybe it chose me. 

I tinkered a bit with this watch and probably removed some parts that I shouldn't have. But when I realized the keyless-works engage and disengage, allowing you to set the time in one mode, and wind it in the other, it gave me so much joy. 

I'll call you CD if that's ok, makes life a bit easier.  You can call me new or Rich is my real name. Put the barrel  back in and assemble all the train with the bridges screwed down. Be careful not to damage the wheel pivots when feeding them into the bridge plates. Also put in the pallet with its cock but leave out the balance wheel. I will have to go soon though as its 1.30 in the morning In  the UK

Edited May 6, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[crazydiamond282]

Edit : Got it. I'll try and put the gear train back together. Does that include the escapement as well? No worries. Have a good night's sleep, and you've already helped me. 

 

The brand of the watch is a Devisa. Google didn't give me any information. The dial looks like this (scratch marks are my fault).

Clearly, I didn't follow the steps in the right order. There was no power, So, I thought "Hmm, power comes from the mainspring, so let me take that out and see if it's broken". It wasn't. Only then did I realize that the gear that engages with the mainspring barrel (and turns with the stem) wasn't engaging.

So I took that out and put it back in. It took an absolute age to put that bridge back in place, but now the gear was engaging with the mainspring gear. 

Right now, I don't care about beat error or how many seconds a day or whatever. I just want to see some movement. 

When I wind the watch, the central gear does not turn. So I'm trying to figure out why. 

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by crazydiamond282

[grsnovi]

Welcome to WRT. You might want to watch some of Mark's videos or take his courses. Either or both would likely be lots of help. I just got my first resurrection going this afternoon.

Have fun!

[crazydiamond282]

Will do. I've been watching "wristwatch revival" videos on youtube because it relaxes me. But they aren't as instructive as Mark's, I don't think.

[grsnovi]

6 minutes ago, crazydiamond282 said:

I've been watching "wristwatch revival" videos

Marshall took Mark's courses and I agree, he does a nice video. So does the Nekkid Watchmaker. Both of those guys are what hooked me. I started Mark's Level 3 course today.

[Nucejoe]

5 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

That looks like an oris ? 

Its an EB1197 . 

1 minute ago, Nucejoe said:

Its an EB1197 . 

Welcome to WRT forum pal.

[Neverenoughwatches]

7 hours ago, crazydiamond282 said:

Does that include the escapement as well? 

 

Morning.  Yes mate all the train and the escapement, leaving off the balance which is broken you said anyway. With that you may have to source parts or preferably a balance complete with your limited tools. What you are wanting to establish is that your power is being retained in the mainspring  and that its transferring its energy through all the train upto the escapement. With all that back in and be really careful pivots can be delicate especially the escape wheel and pallet fork.  You are down to a tenth of a millimetre and less here. Wind in some power and then very gently with some pegwood or a shaved end toothpick, just touch the end of the pallet fork, it should snap back and forth against the banking pins every time you touch it from each side. It won't move unless you touch it, please don't force it from one side to the other, it only requires the gentlest of touches. If you don't have enough wind on the spring this snapping back and forth maybe very subtle so crank up the mainspring some more. Hopefully you have energy retained in the train. If the pallet fork is not moving then there's no power retained or its not transferring up to the escapement  for some reason. Or the pallet jewels or pins which is what you have are locking too heavily on the escape wheel and its not unlocking. If you achieve  good snapping b and f, then well done fella , you've got the barrel installed,  bridges and pallets back in place ok. I might have to knock a couple of points off though for the scratches. I'll inspect them later as I'm off to work soon. I'll potentially give you a B maybe a B+ when you get this far . Notice I say when you get this far and not if you get far, it's all about attitude and positivity matey. Oh and BTW, you've caught me in the right mood, I'm normally quite wacky and mischievous. Like a 55 yr old school boy as you will soon discover " whoahohahahaharrrrr."

1 hour ago, Nucejoe said:

Its an EB1197 . 

Welcome to WRT forum pal.

Thanks Nucejoe, the winding and setting mech looks quite similar to a 50s Oris. Without the train bridge on I wasn't  sure. Just shows how Swiss brands can use almost the same designs in keyless works. I wonder where various  designs stem from and who used them first. And if they sold patents on to finance further developments? 

7 hours ago, crazydiamond282 said:

Edit : Got it. I'll try and put the gear train back together. Does that include the escapement as well? No worries. Have a good night's sleep, and you've already helped me. 

 

The brand of the watch is a Devisa. Google didn't give me any information. The dial looks like this (scratch marks are my fault).

Clearly, I didn't follow the steps in the right order. There was no power, So, I thought "Hmm, power comes from the mainspring, so let me take that out and see if it's broken". It wasn't. Only then did I realize that the gear that engages with the mainspring barrel (and turns with the stem) wasn't engaging.

So I took that out and put it back in. It took an absolute age to put that bridge back in place, but now the gear was engaging with the mainspring gear. 

Right now, I don't care about beat error or how many seconds a day or whatever. I just want to see some movement. 

When I wind the watch, the central gear does not turn. So I'm trying to figure out why. 

 

I think it's the click, as well as the click spring below. If not then the return spring but I think that's unlikely, really need to see the other end under the setting plate.

7 hours ago, crazydiamond282 said:

. The dial looks like this (scratch marks are my fault).

A polythene bag CD. Something like a sandwich bag over the dial and hands. Either doubled over if you are worried or just one side if you are careful. But change regularly as they become worn out quickly and you may use a same previous place used on the bag and push through with your hand removers . You do have hand removers don't you ? I can feel a point deduction brewing inside me, so answer this question very carefully mate, we may fall out, I'm well known for it . My rather gobby gob gets me into all manner of trouble, do I actually care that it does ? Hmm let me think   er No.

7 hours ago, crazydiamond282 said:

When I wind the watch, the central gear does not turn. So I'm trying to figure out why. 

If you mean the keyless works, the dial side then it won't, you are winding up the watch. Pull the crown out and it engages the setting of the watch now turn the crown  and the hour wheel will move.

Edited May 6, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[Michael1962]

Welcome to the forum @crazydiamond282

Sounds like you are enjoying yourself.