Waltham Grade 161 Pocket watch questions...things I do not recognize

[LittleWatchShop]

Here is a Waltham PW  that has features I am not familiar with.  I show two pictures.  One with a large screw.  What is its purpose?  Do I unscrew it for cleaning?  RH or LH threads?

The second picture shows a plate covering a spring of some sort.  I imagine when I remove the screws, the plate and spring will take flight.  How do I handle this?

I need some guidance on how to deal with these.

Thanks in advance!!!

[ifibrin]

22 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

The second picture shows a plate covering a spring of some sort.  I imagine when I remove the screws, the plate and spring will take flight.  How do I handle this?

I would make a small hole in a ziplock bag just big enough for the screwdriver head to go through, place the movement inside the ziplock bag and seal it. Then unscrew the screw with a screwdriver through the hole in the ziplock bag. The ziplock bag should be a bit puffed up, so that the screw isn't at the surface layer of the ziplock bag. This way, if the screw flies, it would do so at an angle and hit the inner side of the ziplock bag...

[JohnR725]

6 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Do I unscrew it for cleaning?  RH or LH threads?

The big screw doesn't look right in other words is not what I usually see their. Usually it's a little screw holding in a cover plate covering up the wheel underneath. It also has the purpose of holding a part on the other side that's holding the stem in place.  If we had a complete serial number we can look up and see what it says in the parts list or what it shows possibly?

Yes the plate is hiding a spring that likes to fly away if you're not careful. Typically and I'm attaching an image there is one screw and the plate comes off. Usually the spring will stay in place unless people of played with it. Yours has two screws you should be able to remove one loosen the other and rotate the plate slowly out a way. That whale keeps the spring under control as opposed to removing it and having it beside the flyway.

 

[JohnR725]

I hadn't realized until I left the page that you actually tell us what it is sort of? The grade 161 becomes a 1907 0 size movement. The parts can be found in the Waltham 1948 parts catalog. Because I didn't realize the size I thought this was more like a 16 size that's why is puzzling some of the differences but from what I can tell in the catalog everything looks right including a really big screw on the dial side. I will assume that it's your normal right-handed thread. Which is still have to take off to get the wheel underneath and a free up the part on the other side C can take the stem out. But I would deal with the plate and the parts under that first.

[LittleWatchShop]

Realizing, of course, full disassembly for cleaning is sacrosanct, for a watch like this that will never be worn but brought to running condition and displayed, why not leave these intact during cleaning?

[JohnR725]

6 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

running condition

Kind of a yes no question?

The gear underneath the really big flat screw has a lot of pressure on it when you're setting the watch and it really should be lubricated. You could just unscrew it carefully not pressing down too hard because you don't want to pop out the thing on the other side. Then you take the gear out Lubricate it and put it back. For everything else if you use like the HP 1300 oil it tends to flow every place and you can probably get It to flow between everything.

Normally for all of these parts I would use the 9504 grease but getting it to flow between things that you don't disassemble is an issue. But I do find that the HP oils do tend to flow much nicer and you could probably get it every place he needed to be. Though I place as I said is under the screw there is that small year and I don't really think you get at it from the backside.

Oh and then there's the other minor little thing? I don't suppose this has one of the steel mainspring barrels? If it does you want to go with the original mainspring because otherwise the end with the hole will be problematic that it's going to catch and if you could find an original even a steel spring off of eBay you'll avoid a lot of problems. Basically in a timer to dealing with anything below about a 16 size steel barrel from Waltham reshaping the end to catch is just a pain and I usually find trying to get original spring works much nicer.

[LittleWatchShop]

54 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Kind of a yes no question?

The gear underneath the really big flat screw has a lot of pressure on it when you're setting the watch and it really should be lubricated. You could just unscrew it carefully not pressing down too hard because you don't want to pop out the thing on the other side. Then you take the gear out Lubricate it and put it back. For everything else if you use like the HP 1300 oil it tends to flow every place and you can probably get It to flow between everything.

Normally for all of these parts I would use the 9504 grease but getting it to flow between things that you don't disassemble is an issue. But I do find that the HP oils do tend to flow much nicer and you could probably get it every place he needed to be. Though I place as I said is under the screw there is that small year and I don't really think you get at it from the backside.

Oh and then there's the other minor little thing? I don't suppose this has one of the steel mainspring barrels? If it does you want to go with the original mainspring because otherwise the end with the hole will be problematic that it's going to catch and if you could find an original even a steel spring off of eBay you'll avoid a lot of problems. Basically in a timer to dealing with anything below about a 16 size steel barrel from Waltham reshaping the end to catch is just a pain and I usually find trying to get original spring works much nicer.

Well, I decided that to sully my reputation (what little I have) would be far worse than misplacing a spring, so I did a full teardown.  After reading pages and pages and pages of discussion about lubrication on this forum, I have narrowed my lubes down to three: Elgin (in the blue bottle-M56b), molykote for areas that need grease, and Novostar L for pallets, escape wheel and balance jewels.  There you have it.  I am now gonna turn on my Defcon 5 firewall to protect myself from incoming.

The watch has been cleaned and so far, I have assembled the above components in question.  I used the baggie technique as suggested by @ifibrinas well as the "one screw" "rotate cover" you suggested.  All is well.

 

--edit: for automatics I use yamalube for the breaking grease

Edited April 2, 2022 by LittleWatchShop

[LittleWatchShop]

What the hell...the screw holding the hairspring slot has virtually no slot.  Grrrrr!  I cannot get enough grip to loosen it.

[jdm]

6 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

What the hell...the screw holding the hairspring slot has virtually no slot.  Grrrrr!  I cannot get enough grip to loosen it.

 

Are you talking about the stud screw? These can handled with sort of very small pin vices, the same used for balance weight screws. Not made anymore, something these sets appears for sale.

[LittleWatchShop]

3 hours ago, jdm said:

 

Are you talking about the stud screw? These can handled with sort of very small pin vices, the same used for balance weight screws. Not made anymore, something these sets appears for sale.

This thought occurred to me, but I did not try it. I have some I inherited, and have bought more on eBay because I found them handy.  I will try it.

Yes, stud screw, not slot screw.

Edited April 3, 2022 by LittleWatchShop