New to watch repair

[RichardHarris123]

Hello 

New to watch repair, I bought this.  The spring winds and the hands move if the balance is swung. 

Just needs to service? 

[watchweasol]

Hello If you have bought the watch for practise work, ok but I should maybe start on something a bit larger (pocket watch)  the components are a bit larger and easier to handle, and when you have done it over two or three times without mishap then have a go at the Audax. Its a nice little movement

[RichardHarris123]

Thanks for the advice, do you think it just needs a service? 

[watchweasol]

If its working of sorts now then probably a service will suffice but be aware of other problems like gunky jewels and chipped/cracked jewels. You will need some good magnification , some oils/grease and a great deal of patience  any problems just post them and the members will assist you. We want you to suceed in your endeavours.            cheers

[watchweasol]

By The Way   lookup the courses on offer from our administrator Mark Lovick. Many people have forund them indispensible by way of an introduction to Horology and the furtherment of their knowledge.

[NotAnotherWatch]

To answer your question.  Yes it does need a service.  That entails a complete teardown  and inspection of all components.  Looking at the pics it appears as though there is some "foreign material" stuck up under the barrel bridge and the third wheel...  As a fellow newbie (bout 9mos now);  I completely agree with the other folks!!!  Do several pocketwatches first.  Also some suggested reading that helped me is Practical Watch Repairing by Donald de Carle and Watchmaking by George Daniels...   How are.your tools???  I found that quality tweezers made a HUGE difference.....  Best of luck, were all here to help.

[RichardHarris123]

Thanks 

Good screwdrivers, cheap tweezers, I will invest.  Stem screw missing, any ideas about replacing it and movement on can cases be bought? 

[Nucejoe]

 If the oscilator is good, runing it sustainablely by adding power to any gear of the train should be possible. in which case a good clean and lube should suffice. Your adding  power to the train to check if escapement can be made to do cosecutive escapes. 

 Nevertheless swing of the socilator is no gurantee a movement would run with just a clean and lube.

I make a habbit of, 

1-  Checing the end shake on balance staff and at least  fork arbour , escape wheel 

2- Check if balance pivot can easily be forced to leaves the jewel hole.

3- if balance wheel or any gear wobbles.

4- Once disassembly gets to the gear train, see if the train runs freely, ideally it should do a back spin at the end.

Actually this type of setting should be taken apart to check the jewel hole and face of the end stone. 

3- Every part can be tested as you disassemble ( see if its doing what its suppose to do )  so the movement is often diagnosed and fixed  before the clean. A preclean is real helpful.

Check if the oscilator runs freely without the fork in place. 

and If the fork jumps to the banks with a gentle tweak and pallets are aligned and aligned/ level  with escape wheel. 

So, what we doing is checking each part.

Good magnification make life a lot easier.

Regards

 

[RichardHarris123]

Thanks 

 

I'll keep you posted 

[RichardHarris123]

It looks like the oscillator is good, it moves whilst adding power to the wheels.  The dial is connected by screws in the side of the mechanism, do they have to be completely unscrewed? 

[RichardHarris123]

Removed the hands and dial, it is now running, any idea why?  It needs a new second hand, how do I measure for one? 

[RichardHarris123]

Is this the stem screw? The stem is bent does it need replacing?  I'm having trouble locking the stem in.

[Nucejoe]

Nothing wrong with removing dial screws, if ithey don't want to come out, putting a bit of oil on them helps.

24 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Removed the hands and dial, it is now running, any idea why?  

So something must have been hindering the gears there, old dried oil or dial plate pushing on gears, you just ought to keep testing everything to find out. Could even have been the stem setting the keyless bad.

So you have a movement to clean and find what under the dial was hindering it from running.

For tube ID of the seconds hand  , measure OD of the sweep pinion 

Good luck

[Nucejoe]

3 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Nothing wrong with removing dial screws, if ithey don't want to come out, putting a bit of oil on them helps.

So something must have been hindering the gears there, old dried oil or dial plate pushing on gears, you just ought to keep testing everything to find out. Could even have been the stem setting the keyless bad.

So you have a movement to clean and find what under the dial was hindering it from running.

For tube ID of the seconds hand  , measure OD of the sweep pinion 

Good luck

correction sweep arbour , not sweep pinon.

[RichardHarris123]

I'm having trouble getting the stem to lock in place.  Are watch cases available? 

[Nucejoe]

12 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I'm having trouble getting the stem to lock in place.  

Turn the stem a bit as you insert it in. How bad and in what section is it bent?  repairing it with a  Stem extender might possible ,its cheaper and readily available.

Check the keyless and if stem square section doesn't want to enter the sliding pinion.

Are you set up to show us vids? 

[RichardHarris123]

It was bent where the crown screws on, managed to straighten it. Do you have to stop it to put hands back on? 

[Nucejoe]

  For a more accurate hands adjustment, it better not be running,  You can release the power through the click or wait until it stops.

 

 

[NotAnotherWatch]

6 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Thanks 

Good screwdrivers, cheap tweezers, I will invest.  Stem screw missing, any ideas about replacing it and movement on can cases be bought? 

Investing in good tweezers made a TREMENDOUS difference for me.  I could then pick up and manipulate/place screws, parts, etc.. with confidence.  Instead of sending them into the "fourth dimension"!!   I've got a smattering of Dumont, Vigor, and even a couple of good Indian sets...

[RichardHarris123]

Could you recommend something cheaper than the dupont?

[RichardHarris123]

Buying screws seems to be a nightmare, plenty of mixed sets but no idea of the sizes. 

[NotAnotherWatch]

I picked up all of mine used..  I think I'm up to 15 pairs now.  But I primarily use maybe 3 the most.  U just need to determine what u like the "feel"of.  Also how to maintain them......

[Nucejoe]

How about getting dumont for hairspring work and small springs ( that be No4) and low quality ones for other tasks.

 

[NotAnotherWatch]

13 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

How about getting dumont for hairspring work and small springs ( that be No4) and low quality ones for other tasks.

 

GREAT ADVICE!!!!   I literally JUST checked Ebay and there are some pretty good deals on used Vigor and Dumonts. I have 2 pair of Indian and one pair of Pakistani tweezers.  They are good tweezers but I prefer the feel of the Vigor or Dumont. 

That being said; I was a professional auto tech for many years.  So I have grown accustomed to a certain "feel" for tools.  Dumont, Vigor, and even Bergeon don't hold a candle to Snap-On in regards to pricing!!!!  

I'm not saying to put a large outlay in tools and other equipment.  Start small and see where the hobby takes you!

[Nucejoe]

Agree,  that snap-on is expensive and the jewel of the crown in auto repair tools.

The feel of a tool is telling us, you got more control over the task to do a finer job.

 Screw drivers are a different story though, often you need to dress one for a near perfect fit on a small  screw, but when you get to other screw/ movement it needs dressing again for a good fit on the other screw.

A master repairman is to remove/ replace these tiny screws without any damage or sign of it ever having been repaired. Imagine handing an audemars piguet to the owner with screw slots showing sign of having been worked on or damaged.

Regards