Rolex Automatics - A Question and Complaint

[mzinski]

This one is coming at you as both a question and a complaint. Quick backstory, I have a watch friend who buys A LOT of vintage, mid-size Rolex (DJ's, OP's, Precisions, etc). I help fix them up for him - it's a lot of fun since I get to see a lot of different variations, problems, etc. 

Over the course of our friendship I've noticed his expectations for a Rolex are a bit different than mine. He expects to be able to pick a dead watch up, give it a couple of shakes, and wear it. I've told him countless times the Rolex literature indicates 20 winds then wear. I find this is especially necessary when the watch is old and not recently serviced. 

He asked me to look at one this week - one with a cal 3035. It looks healthy on a timegrapher, keeps good time when worn, BUT doesn't pass his expectations to pick up a dead watch, shake it, and wear. It stops after a minute. He's asked me why it doesn't pass his test when everything else seems so good. I'm both unsure why and frustrated with the expectation. 

On the complaint side of this: 

Is his expectation of a Rolex unreasonable? 

On the technical side: 

If a Rolex is truly designed to and capable of being picked up from a dead stop, shaken a couple times, and worn - what would prevent an otherwise healthy watch from doing so? My suspicion is twofold; one, the autowind mechanism is not functioning as efficiently as it could and is in need of cleaning, lubrication, maybe a repair, or two, the whole movement is incrementally dirty/dried up enough to perform well at a full wind but not be clean/lubricated enough to get going at next to no wind. 

In either event, cleaning, inspection, lubrication, and any repairs discovered would be the best course, no? 

Thanks for hearing out my complaint and question! 

[Klassiker]

1 hour ago, mzinski said:

In either event, cleaning, inspection, lubrication, and any repairs discovered would be the best course, no? 

I suppose the only was to find out is to try it. Either the service will improve things (but not necessarily to a degree which satisfies your friend - he does bother to set the time, I assume?), or it doesn't. If nothing changes, give your friend some stick about being too lazy to even move his arm around. The Rolex advice, to give a run-down watch 20 winds before wearing, seems sensible to me, if only to get enough power into the mainspring to get the amplitude up. Superlative Chronometer and all that. Of course, even 20 winds might not be enough if he goes for a lie down to recover!

[handwound]

As you said, a dirty movement or dirty automatic module can possibly reduce the efficiency of the automatic winding. But if the watch runs with good amplitude with full wind it's unlikley that the reason lies in the power transmission of the geartrain. So the reasons probably lies within the automatic module. A worn mainspring could contribute to the problem, as it possibly has less stiffness, also in the first part of the spring.

Of cause different types of automatic mechanisms have different degrees of efficiency, maybe this Rolex caliber is just not as effective as others. It can depend on the gear ratio, the friction, the weight of the rotor and the kind of power transmission (for example Seiko Magic lever system vs reversing wheels). 

Last but not least the wearing behavior is an important factor. If you wear your automatic watch while working at a desk you barely move your wrist and so no energy for the mainspring. 

[JohnR725]

4 hours ago, mzinski said:

Over the course of our friendship I've noticed his expectations for a Rolex are a bit different than mine. He expects to be able to pick a dead watch up, give it a couple of shakes, and wear it. I've told him countless times the Rolex literature indicates 20 winds then wear. I find this is especially necessary when the watch is old and not recently serviced.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing what he's doing unless of course he expects the watch to keep time and continue to run?

4 hours ago, mzinski said:

If a Rolex is truly designed to and capable of being picked up from a dead stop, shaken a couple times, and worn - what would prevent an otherwise healthy watch from doing so?

You do know that this is not a standard Rolex test for verification as it's not found in the technical guide?

Didn't find what I needed a 3035 guide so I'm looking at a 3135 guide. Then I'm going to ask you do an experiment for us?

In the 3135 guide they talk about typically with Rolex watches are tested at full wind and half wind which is basically 24 hours. But what I'm looking at here is full wind would be 40 complete rotations of the crown which equals 10 rotations of the ratchet wheel. Strangely enough half wind is 20 rotations the crown but only 4.8 rotations of the escape wheel.

So here's your experiment to try if you can see the ratchet wheel rotates the automatic weight one turn and see how far it moves? They don't actually have how many times the automatic weight has to revolve around to wind up the watch to 50% for instance. In real life because I remember doing this once with a Seiko watch you probably have to rotate the automatic weight a whole bunch at times just even notice that the ratchet wheel moved at all. But with the above numbers you should bill a figure out how many rotations it needs of the automatic weight to get the watch to wind up even one turn of the ratchet wheel.

So basically were looking at an efficiency problem. Depending upon the condition of the watch it may need more energy to run. Depending upon the design of the automatic assembly and its condition how many times does the weight have to turn to get the watch to run for instance? If the watch does start to run how long is it going to run?

Another variation of the problem is? What about  watch owners who don't move their arms enough? They work at a desk job for instance conceivably they take the watch up it starts to run they don't move their arms their watch stops. This is of course why they make auto winders to keep your watch wound up all the time so the ready to go instantly and they'll be on time because they are wound up.

This is why some repair shops tell their customers to manually wind there watch up if they're not running. Because otherwise the automatic is going to take a fair amount of time to get the thing the wind up so it is running.

Say yes is an unrealistic expectation that you can pick up an automatic shake at a couple of times and be off and running and keep perfect time.