Vintage Matile Lower Jewel Loose

[ken]

Hello I'm new to fixing watches, so I post here first in hope of not making mistakes,

I have an older Matile poket watch. The balance is moving around but the pivots look ok (there long ones) but the lower jewel is floating around, it's running upside down, so I'm letting the spring run down, short of removing the dial and looking at why it's loose any suggestions what may have happened, I posted some photos and a short video on my face wall

[anilv]

Hi Ken, welcome to the forum!

 

Looks like the dial side jewel assembly has come adrift but I would not rule out a broken balance pinion as it is very unlikely for the balance jewels to come off, especially on an older pocket watch without shock absorber as the cap jewels are screwed in. On newer watches with shock absorber the spring can break and this will lead to the jewels moving.

 

Only way to check is to remove the dial.

 

BTW you can release the power from the mainspring by releasing the click and releasing the power gradually by means of the crown or a screwdriver on the ratch-wheel.

 

In fact you should do this even when the watch has run down as there may be residual power left in the spring.

 

Anil

[clockboy]

Welcome to the forum Anilv. Pocket watch parts are not easy to source & most try to find another donor movement and swap parts to make one good one.

It,s a good idea to post your pics to your posts as we can then all have a good look to see whats wrong etc. Normally there is a member of this forum that will have the answer.

[Geo]

Welcome to the forum Ken, you will find this a friendly place where you can get good advice and the odd bit of leg pulling! That's good advice from Anil, and I too recommend you look very carefully with a loupe for a broken pinion.

Now for the leg pulling!

Clockboy I assume you meant to welcome Ken to the forum, or did you not welcome Anil last year? ;)

[ken]

[ken]

I took the pin from the spring out (omg that's tiny) moved the jewel around a pinch and it runs,:) I then used a pin to tickle the lower jewel and it's moving

[ken]

[ken]

Sorry can't delete that last link
Also the jewels look white ??
Anyone know why
I'm a green apple

 

*** Hi Ken - don't worry about the non-working link - I've hidden the post so it doesn't intrude on the thread.***

Will

trim.F2113A9F-9FC7-4C7F-B3DC-95A0FEE60719.MOV

Edited April 24, 2015 by WillFly

[ken]

Here is a nice shot of the location the hair was in when I first received this

Edited April 24, 2015 by ken

[clockboy]

Welcome to the forum Ken, you will find this a friendly place where you can get good advice and the odd bit of leg pulling! That's good advice from Anil, and I too recommend you look very carefully with a loupe for a broken pinion.

Now for the leg pulling!

Clockboy I assume you meant to welcome Ken to the forum, or did you not welcome Anil last year? ;)

Sorry all another senior moment

[ken]

How do they hold that jewel I place? Is it press fit? I see the cap jewel but don't see retaining clips, I don't want to start prying at it, I'm going to need better tweezers! My X-acto pair is showing its weekness

[anilv]

Hi Ken..

 

I'm having trouble understanding you..Lets backtrack a moment toen sure we're talking about the same thing.

 

1. The part you have removed from the watch is the balance cock with the balance wheel attached. The cap jewel is held in by the shiny chrome circle with two dots in in. These two dots are the **BLEEP** end of two screws. To access the head of the screws you need to remove the balance wheel first... In this particular watch the it is pinned in place, and its not really easy for a beginner to get it back together .once the balance wheel is off, remove the two screws and the whole thing falls apart pretty easily.

 

2. In the pics where the balance wheel is laying on the balance cock, next to the pivot you will usually see a small jewel sticking out. This is the roller jewel.

 

3. In your first message you mentioned the lower jewel was loose. I understood this to mean the bottom jewel which is the jewel in the main plate (behind the dial) where the other pivot fits.

 

Reading your last post, are you actually talking about the roller jewel as described in point 2 above? if so  then this is fixed in place with shellac. Shellac is heated and melted around  the jewel (in very minute amounts). Dont be tempted to use superglue etc.. it wont work.

 

Anil

 

3.

[ken]

Hi Ken..

 

I'm having trouble understanding you..Lets backtrack a moment toen sure we're talking about the same thing.

 

1. The part you have removed from the watch is the balance cock with the balance wheel attached. The cap jewel is held in by the shiny chrome circle with two dots in in. These two dots are the **BLEEP** end of two screws. To access the head of the screws you need to remove the balance wheel first... In this particular watch the it is pinned in place, and its not really easy for a beginner to get it back together .once the balance wheel is off, remove the two screws and the whole thing falls apart pretty easily.

 

2. In the pics where the balance wheel is laying on the balance cock, next to the pivot you will usually see a small jewel sticking out. This is the roller jewel.

 

3. In your first message you mentioned the lower jewel was loose. I understood this to mean the bottom jewel which is the jewel in the main plate (behind the dial) where the other pivot fits.

 

Reading your last post, are you actually talking about the roller jewel as described in point 2 above? if so  then this is fixed in place with shellac. Shellac is heated and melted around  the jewel (in very minute amounts). Dont be tempted to use superglue etc.. it wont work.

 

Anil

 

3.

Yes the jewles are not the same, I guess, it's the jewel in the bottom plate, Its not out completely but it's wobbling around the jewel hole, I just assumed they were held in the same. I see the dial is held in with half screws, nice I don't like the taper pins. The roller was out of align 1/4 turn, don't now how that was set. I did try to turn it with out removing the roller but it only moved a tiny bit so I decided to remove that taper pin when I seen the extra hair spring, this got me up and running. the pivots have ends. I have never seen long pivots like this. So I'm not sure if there supposed to be a bit longer or not. That lower jewel flopping around the hole is a strange prolem, with the spring pined in the position who knows what a poor life this old time piece had. I think the least I touch this the better.

[ken]

I think I was wanting to remove the top cap jewel to try a tiny bit of synthetic clock oil I have, I think the doing ran down, the click is so tiny I don't even want to touch in. I just fee like my tools are over sized for this work. And still I want to enjoy a running watch from 1880

[ken]

Here is another jem, I repaired this with some great tips from marks videos, it's a F. Rotig Harve (E. Howard?) I timed it the way he showed and its within seconds, wow what a masterpiece, for what I paid you can't even buy a Quartz movement. I love it

I tried to add a video of the watch running but I guess I'm new to posting and repairing

Edited April 25, 2015 by ken

[ken]

Ok here is what I've got, I removed the hands and the dial, and I only see one screw on the bottom jewel cap wow I hope it's just loose ??

I really don't know what I'm doing,

so far so good though the spring is down. I want to take of the top plates and wax it like a car hood, I know that's wrong and with antiques if you clean of the tarnish you take all the value away. So I wait for all the great advice for chock workers in the know. I don't have money $$ for all the awesome tools, I do have a few, nice ones too. Like this K&D hand remover,

I didn't need to spend $35 for it and the hands just came off this Matile with easy pressure. But I'll add to my watch hobby.

[ken]

Hands were bent.

[bobm12]

Hands were bent.

 

True, but it renders a Salvador Daly flavor to the vintage watch! :)  One thing I like about those watches are the cleanliness of the face design, the small seconds and the general elegance of the ensemble. As I've already commented in previous posts, they sport a superior workmanship that can not be compared/found in the factory made products of today. Just the good old times I guess!

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[ken]

Guess I'm dealing with something a bit to old or rare. I'm going to try to remove the jewel cap and see what's moving around!

[ken]

It turns out the jewel retainer screw is stripped or the hole, I put some tape to hold it for now. Anyone on stripped tiny screws. I'll be looking for another screw but I don't want to glue it. It's ok you guy's jump right in here, I have plenty of time to do this right!

[ken]

On the good side, it seems to keep great time.

i

[Geo]

It turns out the jewel retainer screw is stripped or the hole, I put some tape to hold it for now. Anyone on stripped tiny screws. I'll be looking for another screw but I don't want to glue it. It's ok you guy's jump right in here, I have plenty of time to do this right!

Hi Ken, you've done really well to get it serviced and keeping good time. :)

Regarding the stripped thread on the cap jewel retaining plate; I'm assuming it is the thread in the main plate that is stripped, and if so you should be able to rotate the cap a little and drill and tap another thread. This will mean using a micro drill and tap of the correct size. Not too difficult a job if you have the correct equipment.

If you don't want to go to the expense of purchasing a small precision pillar drill, you could drill the hole by carefully using one of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Archimedes-micro-mini-hand-drill-and-20-HSS-Titanium-coated-drill-bits-/361214643509?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item541a120d35 just make sure that you keep it vertical when drilling.

As for the tap, you could buy the likes of this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Quality-Screw-Plate-with-14-Taps-Dies-Watchmakers-Jewellers-/200965782440?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2eca7e7ba8 not the best, but probably good enough for what you require at the moment.

If you can find a screw that is one size bigger than the original, you will only require a matching tap to re-thread the original hole.

[ken]

Hi Ken, you've done really well to get it serviced and keeping good time. :)

Regarding the stripped thread on the cap jewel retaining plate; I'm assuming it is the thread in the main plate that is stripped, and if so you should be able to rotate the cap a little and drill and tap another thread.

when drilling.

As for the tap, you could buy the likes of this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Quality-Screw-Plate-with-14-Taps-Dies-Watchmakers-Jewellers-/200965782440?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2eca7e7ba8 not the best, but probably good enough for what you require at the moment.

If you can find a screw that is one size bigger than the original, you will only require a matching tap to re-thread the original hole.

I did pickup a tool for tapping, not sure but seems a bit to large 1.0 to 1.7

[Geo]

Ken I thought you would have measured the size of the original screw first to check the size. This is something you will have to do.