Jump to content

Installing a Balance Staff that looks different than the Original

jdrichard

By jdrichard
in Watch Repairs Help & Advice

 Share

Recommended Posts

jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

Posted
Posted

I’m doing a job for a gent on a BW Raymond 16S Elgin 21 Jewel and I have noticed that the new balance he sourced is the same length, but the balance shoulder and seat seem to ba a bit off. Included some disassembly photos. Plus the last guy shellacked the heck out of the roller jewel. Not sure why and I may need to clean this up....can’t let it go; darn!

684B3203-64D9-49BD-B75B-C00DC1459757.jpeg

0A53B209-1D3F-4D4D-B78D-A7E6F3B86899.jpeg

ED2FE409-CA57-4BA9-8917-159094E3DA78.jpeg

D2684D7D-2FE0-4412-BACD-036F7BC0761F.jpeg

AF583002-752F-4D64-9FEC-8129A32C01DE.jpeg

D357179A-5790-45D7-8E26-25440D1A333B.jpeg

60B3FDD3-7C79-46C1-B213-028F1341EE8D.jpeg

1032E2F5-585A-4E2E-B78A-A98F9D81101B.jpeg

489B39BB-DDC7-42F3-B80D-38B181CC8347.jpeg

9C84A9BA-BC06-4FF7-B033-E8A0AED24504.jpeg

2DB3A4A7-4EDF-4FB1-AE06-5C14CCD1C7FB.jpeg

6AD7F9E4-E1C5-4485-8A13-3B9297C28012.jpeg

071FDBA3-308B-4FA4-804F-6E52636D1C25.jpeg

B992335C-905A-476E-93C5-D56A9F37F2A8.jpeg

775410F5-A06F-4A69-8CE2-B3E2143F3163.jpeg

  • Like 1
Poljot Super WRT Addict

Poljot

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, jdrichard said:

I’m doing a job for a gent on a BW Raymond 16S Elgin 21 Jewel and I have noticed that the new balance he sourced is the same length, but the balance shoulder and seat seem to ba a bit off. Included some disassembly photos. Plus the last guy shellacked the heck out of the roller jewel. Not sure why and I may need to clean this up....can’t let it go; darn!

He or SHE ? shellacked it because shoulder dia was too small and roller could not be secured on the staff. Right?

And because this is a double roller - more shellac is "better"... 

Nice photos and great tools!

Edited by Poljot
jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

Posted
  • Author
Posted
59 minutes ago, Poljot said:

He or SHE ? shellacked it because shoulder dia was too small and roller could not be secured on the staff. Right?

And because this is a double roller - more shellac is "better"... 

Nice photos and great tools!

So I might have the same problem when putting in the new balance staff.

Poljot Super WRT Addict

Poljot

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, jdrichard said:

So I might have the same problem when putting in the new balance staff.

Well, only time will tell ?

I would try (by hand) the roller on your new staff to see if it's loose, or not. Are you able to  make a new Staff?

 

Edited by Poljot
jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

Posted
  • Author
Posted
2 hours ago, Poljot said:

Well, only time will tell ?

I would try (by hand) the roller on your new staff to see if it's loose, or not. Are you able to  make a new Staff?

 

Yes I can. Made a few but not often.

JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, jdrichard said:

BW Raymond 16S Elgin 21 Jewel

I don't suppose you give me the staff number so I can looked up something?

rodabod Distinguished Member

rodabod

Posted
Posted

The original staff looks like it has a proper back-slope to help prevent oil spreading. I’m sure the new one will be fine without. 
 

From what I can see from your comparison photo, it’s hard to tell if the balance rim (and therefore hairspring) will remain at the same height. Can possibly address that later if there is an issue. 
 

Bear in mind that the excess shellac on the roller may in fact be holding it together if it is split. 

jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

Posted
  • Author
Posted
2 hours ago, rodabod said:

The original staff looks like it has a proper back-slope to help prevent oil spreading. I’m sure the new one will be fine without. 
 

From what I can see from your comparison photo, it’s hard to tell if the balance rim (and therefore hairspring) will remain at the same height. Can possibly address that later if there is an issue. 
 

Bear in mind that the excess shellac on the roller may in fact be holding it together if it is split. 

You are perhaps correct. If that is so, I will need to source another roller table. Or figure something out. Not sure if I can make a roller table on my lathe...but anything is possible.

JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

Posted
Posted

One of the problems with fitting balance staffs especially American pocket watch is they often came in variations. Not only variations but oftentimes variations with the exact same part number. Then aftermarket replacement staff's didn't always dimension exactly the same as the original just to make things more interesting. If you give me a serial number I can look up and get the dimensions of the original staff for you?

jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

Posted
  • Author
Posted
6 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

One of the problems with fitting balance staffs especially American pocket watch is they often came in variations. Not only variations but oftentimes variations with the exact same part number. Then aftermarket replacement staff's didn't always dimension exactly the same as the original just to make things more interesting. If you give me a serial number I can look up and get the dimensions of the original staff for you?

This is the staff it is suppose to be based on the movement SN.

533C38BA-C9D8-44D4-83DF-0171193E7BD4.png

2DCE2A14-7489-477D-B52E-E4C6E92B8FAE.jpeg

JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

Posted
Posted

The good news is there appears to only be one staff with that number in three different pivots sizes. But the bad news is the staff number you have above is a bestfit staff although it's not entirely bad as you have lathe as there usually oversize.

elgin 2532c.JPG

3532 dr.JPG

  • Like 1
 Share
Go to topic listing


  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Andy96
      Esape wheel moves to much

      By Andy96 · Posted

      Thank you Mike for the hints! I did go to HS Walsh and buy few tools that will help me start 🙂 I also went to the Royal Observatory at Greenwich, I saw the collection and it is amazing!! Harrison H4 is indeed an amazing manufact, and the story behind it (about the prize from the government) is incredible. Again, thank you for your suggestions, you made my day!
    • RichardHarris123
      Issue with Seiko 4006 Movement: Alarm Bolt Yoke Problem

      By RichardHarris123 · Posted

      Is it the correct screw? 
    • TimepieceTinkerer
      Issue with Seiko 4006 Movement: Alarm Bolt Yoke Problem

      By TimepieceTinkerer · Posted

      Hello watch enthusiasts, I'm encountering a peculiar issue with my Seiko 4006 movement and could use some advice. Specifically, the alarm bolt yoke doesn't function properly when I tighten the screw on the calendar plate directly above it. This results in the alarm not functioning as it should. However, when I leave the screw loose, everything works perfectly and alarm bolt yoke is functional as should be. I've tried replacing the alarm bolt yoke, the alarm bolt yoke spring, and even the calendar plate itself, but unfortunately, none of these changes have made a difference. The only workaround I've found is to keep the screw on top of the alarm bolt yoke loose. Has anyone else experienced a similar issue or have any insights on what might be causing this? I'll also be sharing pictures to help illustrate the problem. Looking forward to your suggestions and advice! TT
    • ColChibani
      Slava 2414 clamps screws

      By ColChibani · Posted

      Some news. After screws removal from donor movement, a family shot. From left to right: original (broken) screws new screws purchased from Cousins UK, as "Slava 2428 clamp screws", that didn't fit. They actually & definitively look too large screws removed from donor 2428 movement Here we go! First one is in position: Let's continue on the other side: Done! Next step will be putting back the hands. Another discovery for me! I keep going ...
    • nevenbekriev
      Bezel for 1954 Rolex 6581 Oyster Perpetual

      By nevenbekriev · Posted

      OK, I have been there many times and know several solutions. As I believe, the pinion (the part with the leaves ) is on the other side of the arbor, yes? If so, then there is easy way to solve the problem. You can grind from one side as shown on the drawing with dremel tool. This will allow to push out the broken drill bit easy from inside. Then You will be able to insert new pivot and then You can solder it in place and in the same time to fill the ground portion with solder. Of course, I mean solder for PCBs, but not the led free one - use led containing solder, the led free solder which is offered in common hardware stores is for idiots.
×
×
  • Create New...