Removing a jewel on an Elgin 345 movement

[cjones]

I would like to try to repair this 4th wheel jewel on an Elgin 345 pocket watch movement. It is chipped, but not cracked through. My question is about strategy-

1.  Should I try to remove only the jewel, and leave the setting and attempt to reburnish a new jewel in its place? (pushing out only the jewel, from dial side?)

or

2.  Push out the entire setting and either find a new setting(Ebay, etc.) or maybe steal one from another 345 movement? (pushing the entire jewel setting from "works" side?)

or

3. push out entire setting, ream hole and use a friction? jewel that takes up the entire reamed hole? 

I have a couple of books that have reference material, but the focus is not on this type of jewel replacement. Those examples were for the balance, which I have done before. I am making the assumption that one of the big differences is that the balance setting is not burnished into the cock(it is friction fit or just falls out when the screws are removed), whereas this jewel setting looks to be burnished into the movement plate. Any reference material or help is much appreciated. I don't have high expectations for this watch as it is in bad shape and is my cheap learning watch. I have added the three photos as attachments. dial side and "works" side of 4th wheel jewel. 

Thanks again and hope all is well.

Chris

[JohnR725]

I always find it interesting with American pocket watches the quantity of answers sometimes seems to be lacking.

A lot of your answers will depend upon things that we don't have a lot of control over like you want to do this repair now or 50 years ago?

it's hard to tell from the picture whether the jewel is in a setting and whether it comes out. But if you look in one of the Elgin parts books like the 1915 catalog they have descriptions. just in case you out of the parts catalog I snipped out some relative information. so it appears to be it's in a setting but if you attempt to push it out the setting doesn't pop out then you might make the assumption that it's not in a setting.

then I have a link below you can enter in your grade number and get the parts list. you'll notice there are two separate fourth wheel jewels and you need the serial number figure out which one you need.

now the reference I made of when you should repairing your watch is mainly a reference to if this was 50 or 100 years ago or whatever they made the watch the material house supplier would have the parts or they could just order them from Elgin as Elgin had a really nice spare parts department but it's been closed since the 70s. Then even if was open on not sure if it would still have pocket watch parts. So this mean getting a replacement fourth wheel jewel setting is probably going to be an issue.

so that gives you the options of bordering or finding a replacement jewel.

Removing the current jewel which is probably burnished in. Ideally you should have a proper shaped jewel to replace and specifically by shape burnished in jewels have rounded outer edges of the burnishing will have some place to go. Modern jewels have smooth shoulders. This means you have to modify the jewel itself so they can be properly burnished in although people will try to burnishing modern jewels with limited degrees of success.

Or if there's enough room in the setting you can ream it out and fit in a modern plate jewel. but oftentimes jewels in settings don't really have enough room to get a modern jewel in.

 

 

 

http://www.elginwatchparts.com/

 

[cjones]

John,

Thank you kindly for your reply and thoughtful information. It is much appreciated. The serial number would make it part # 1405. If I was to look for modern replacements, Seitz jewels from Ofrei, Cousins, or similar would be my options? 

Chris

[HectorLooi]

Finding a replacement jewel would probably be more difficult than winning the lottery. I have only replaced a pocket watch balance jewel once. It was one of those rubbed in ones in a brass chaton. My vintage Seitz jewelling tool had a few canisters of chatons, but as luck would have it, the can with the size I needed was empty.

In the end I made a bushing from a brass rod and inserted into the plate, then used my jewelling tool to ream the hole to a jewel size that I had. That worked great. But I messed up and soaked my pallet fork for too long and the jewels fell out.