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Well I got a Radex RD1212-BT Outdoor edition - obviously so I can take it off roading in a hurricane. Actually it was nominally more expensive than the base model but offered with next day Amazon Prime delivery. Fired it up and tested it on my suspect dial...nothing. Nothing at all. Well, it did indicate 0.10 background radiation. I suppose that's good but part of me was hoping it would indicate Radium just so I could see it work. But this poses a question for me - this particular device only detects Beta, Gamma, and X-Ray. NOT Alpha. I'm no nuclear scientist so here comes my dumb question: do I need a geiger counter that detects Alpha particles to determine if I have a Radium dial?

I have this roamer waiting in line. I'd quite like to pull it apart and see what parts it needs. But before I do that, I'd like to remove the lume. I've removed the lume from 3 or 4 dials and hand sets so far but I've always done it under water or under IPA to contain the particles. They were all enamel dials though so nice and easy, under water, scrape it off with cocktail sticks, no danger. This though, I'm not sure how the dial is finished. Also, the markings I believe are printed. I am super cautious of damaging the markings. I like the patina on the dial even though it's quite heavy. I don't mind if whatever I do improves the patina somewhat but it's not a requirement. I don't want to make it worse though! Is doing this dial under water a risk? I assume under IPA is a definite risk.

I know! It's hard for me, too. There are some amazing watches with radium. E.g. I love the "fat lug" Omega Seamaster from thr 50s (ref 2846/2848), but always radium. There are three dangers from radium: - the least: direct radiation from wearing them - medium: Radon gas emission from the decay of radium (it's suggested keep radium watches in well ventilated rooms) - the most: somehow ingesting or inhaling the actual radium when opening cases or working on them.

This is an interesting topic. @JohnR725 remarked correctly that resale value will dramatically go down then dials are refinished. I recently saw a 1940 Longines Flyback Chronograph in incredible condition. Could have been worth 50-70k. But the dial was repainted. Now the value is around 5k. Crazy. I'm also a big advocate of originality. Even if it includes a big of damage/deterioration. BUT, I nevertheless agree with @mzinski.. if you're afraid of the radium and you won't wear it... and you're not looking at selling... then do what you want with it! You'll honor the watch more if you wear than storing it away in a lead-box. BUT, this brings up a deeper question. What is "refinishing"?? There are different levels: 1. Keep everything original and just clean gently (my favourite) 2. Remove radium but leave everything else exactly how it was (I could live with that!) 3. Correct/add paint where it has faded in a manner that blends in with the original paint (I probably wouldn't, but maybe acceptable) 4. Repaint the whole dial .. 99. and then there is what I've so far seen from Kirk Rich. If you look at this video: .. you see how they remove EVERYTHING from the dial and "recreate" it from scratch. To me, this is absolutely unacceptable (unless the dial was completely gone... which it really wasn't in this case). Any collector will immediately see that it's redone (e.g. all the printing is a tad too thick; the edges of the pie pan have become rounded,...). I personally find it a crying shame. There's nothing original left in this dial (except the brass plate itself). That's just my opinion, though. I may be unfair to Kirk Rich, because maybe that's what the client wanted. And if, upon request, they just remove radium - and leave everything else untouched - great! They probably have the skills. But just make sure you know exactly what they're doing.

one of the problems I have with the word vintage I think of actual vintage and you don't want to get vintage. But the good news is vintage definition of vintage is considerably newer. So basically on this group the last of whatever the vintage is this group would consider it basically a new watch. so basically you can look up when radium was discontinued but the reality is radium existed beyond that. It have to make sure the dial has typically the T for for the other thing or find a watch that doesn't have anything that forces at all but I don't know how, that is Rolex. as I was reading through this the reality is I would go with a different suggestion recommended by somebody else. okay without radium moves it somewhere into the 60s he can probably find discussion groups that will tell you when radium ceased on Rolex watches. Then Rolex has really beautiful service manual's probably the best service manual can find anywhere there in color they specify the screwdriver size everything almost sort of not really. All the watch companies have supplemental information which is not included in the service manual. the nonautomatic is interesting it have to do some research I don't know how many non-automatics they have. As Rolex is big for automatic watches. But everything falls apart with number five as Rolex parts are not necessarily readily available unless it's one of the more common automatic calibers probably like 3135. You could probably go back to the 3035 but go look on eBay go look up parts lookup a balance complete for Rolex. Go find yourself a really nice Omega watch they make really really nice watches. Where the parts are going to be more readily available unfortunately Swatch group doesn't want you to have parts so you're not to get him direct but Rolex doesn't like you either so they're the same that way but their way more Omega watches out there than Rolex watches. That if you want something different really unique go find it vintage grand Seiko. Because grand Seiko started with manual wind watches and they actually are really nice watches. Haven't you ever wondered why chronometer certification by the Swiss do not include other countries? This way then avoid the embarrassment of what grand Seiko deaths to their standards. To go find a nice manual wind grand Seiko other than vintage Seiko's it can be hard to find the parts. That might be best to go with Omega as it probably fits all of your criteria.

If the lume on the dial is stable enough that you can remove the dial, store it, and then reinstall it on the movement without it crumbling everywhere, then it can be left as is. You should still take precautions to capture any flakes that come off the dial during handling, but once the dial is safely reinstalled and cased up in the watch there’s little to worry about. Unless you intend to relume a radium dial, there’s no need to remove the radium lume unless it’s degraded to the point that it’s unstable and crumbling away. It might even be safer to leave the lume alone, than tackle removing it in a safe and controlled manner that ensures that you capture all of it as it’s removed. Of course this is a personal choice, there is no wrong answer, but my own opinion is that radium dials with stable lume are best left alone, unless the dial is to be relumed. I know that some people choose to stabilise the radium lume using clear lacquer or other similar means, but I haven’t attempted that. Best Regards, Mark

I Have a doubt on a vintage watch I want to service. It's an old cronographe suisse I think from the 50's. Does it have in your opinion a radium dial?

I will support John's note about originality, sale value, and collectibility. Once you refinish, there's no going back. Why do you want to get rid of the radium and refinish the dial? Aesthetically, it looks pretty decent. I saw you want to go with a US based dial refinisher but I think that's a mistake. I recommend you send it off to Bill and Sons in the UK. With them you have two options, they can use the vintage cliches they have on hand to best replicate the dial you have. It won't be the same but it will be an excellent dial and they will work with you to customize the colors, shade of lume, etc. On one of my dials they helped select a white that was an off white so it didn't feel/look glaringly like a redial. You have a second option in which they develop a custom cliche based on your dial. Basically, they take a high resolution photo of the existing dial, create a vector artwork out of it, and create a custom cliche to reprint the dial. I did this a few dials (Patek, Breitling, Rolex, and a sentimental off-brand skin diver). Again, the work is excellent AND you get a dial that is the same as the original. They will remove radium. Can't recommend them highly enough. After experience with so many others, I only go to Bill and Sons now.

Hi John. Thanks for your response. Yes my hope is to send it off and have them remove the radium although rich Kirk does not do that so I would need to remove it myself. The other company I mentioned is willing to remove the radium. I did that on another watch that I had so it is doable. I'm also on the lookout for a replacement dial but really haven't found anything. Once I get the movement and dial out of the case I can measure it and that might help me to find a replacement and then just safely store the original dial in my workshop. It'll stay in the family for as long as I'm alive so I'm not too concerned about resale value. Have a good weekend my friend.

I'm assuming that no one else in the family cares whatever you're going to do this watch? This is because from a collecting point of view even though it has radium on the dial if you remove that from a watch collecting point of view the watch is now lowered in value. You would actually be much better off to find a replacement dial get that refinished just for the purists if you really want to keep this original. Oh and I assume you're going to replace the hands if you haven't done so already? I've heard stories that when people are purchasing vintage Rolex watches they actually will bring a Geiger counter because the various watches had various levels of radiation. So in other words if it's a replacement dial or somebody's playing games with the watch and others swapping parts around they will know Then I assume I'm just being nitpicky here but you're going to send the dial to them and have them remove the radium? Then no experience at all but the names familiar. But that doesn't mean anything because often times businesses are sold and the business keeps the name of the people go.

Hi Is this radium? If yes, how can I safely change the crystal on it or is it best to leave it? How to check radium without a measuring device?

Wondering what everyone’s method/material is for color matching very old lume on watch hands. I don’t want it to glow, just refill the hour hand to match the old minute hand, as the radium “paint” is gone from the hour hand.

Pulled this watch apart today. I decided to get rid if the lume on the last 2 watches I have with radium so the house and workshop is radium free again. Gave me change to inspect the movement for this roamer. Apart from the damage I knew to the arbor, the missing ratchet wheel screw and the missing click spring, it all looked good. Filthy, but good. All pivots are good, all jewels are good, all teeth are good, hairspring is good, it should run just fine. So I ordered the parts it needs. Now it's apart i could get a look at the case, it's heavier than I expected, but the mark is silver and it's soft. Must definitely be some kind of aluminium alloy. It's also quite a simple shape really. This project is most definitely on. I best find a bit of brass from somewhere.

I think you have done very well! It looks good just like this, in my view. Maybe consider painting the numerals in a colour like they were before (the burnt radium colour). That would restore the nice contrast it had. Probably not very easy, but with enough patience...

I finally received this Rolex family heirloom from a family member. After much thought and a fair amount of research I have decided that I want to remove the radium from the dial and have the dial restored. I could only find two companies in the US that seemed trustworthy and I'm wondering if anyone has experience with either Rich Kirk/myjewelryrepair.com out of California or carignan watch company out of New Hampshire? Or if you've had a good experience with another dial restorer in the US, please let me know. Given the sentimental value of the watch I do not want to send the dial to just anyone. Thank you.

I hadn't responded yet because frankly I was at a mental impasse not sure how I wanted to proceed. I definitely knew that I would not have Peace of Mind with the watch as is. So I did decide to remove the radium myself which I finally completed. I'm the kind of guy that likes my vintage stuff to look used and abused so I actually don't mind the way the dial looks currently and may decide to just wear it like that once I redo the hands. Unfortunately no comparison to the cool looking dial it was before (choices, choices). However I am still debating whether to send the dial in and have it redone. To be continued.

Hi guys. I have the notion to buy a vintage Rolex(s) to restore and pass down to my children. I'd like to take my time doing research on different models but before I started I thought I would get some guidance from you all. My requirements are that 1. it cost $2500 or less. 2 that it not have radium. 3 that it be a simple enough design that I can restore it myself. In that regard I would say I'm an intermediate beginner. I can do a basic COA and i have changed a few balance Staffs. 4. I would prefer a non automatic but I'm flexible on that. 5. I prefer without a calendar for simplicity's sake but I am flexible on that as well. 5. Finally I would like something that has parts readily available and are not astronomical in price. Just perusing eBay I have seen a couple of models that fit most of my criteria such as the Air king, and oyster precision. But I have no idea if these would be decent models to consider or not. One thing I have noticed on eBay is that quite a few of the sellers don't really describe much about the running condition of the watches. Some don't even say if they are running. Which seems to be pretty odd given the high price tags of these watches. I guess I could ask specific questions from the sellers and if I don't get answers then I would just move on. Can't imagine spending that kind of money and having it be a surprise whether or not the watch runs or the balance staff is broken. Anyways thoughts anyone might have would be appreciated. Thank you.

Definitely a personal decision. I decided not to work on watches with radium at all - and as an extension, also not to own any. I know it's a bit over-cautions. But I know (from experience) that I can't enjoy radium watches..

I concur with keeping the original dial and hands but respect you are concerned about the radium. Is this a cal 59? 700? If so there are replacement dials and hands around. Find something in poor condition to send to the restorer and keep these original since they are in excellent condition, not only because of value but because of the artifact value. You are not only the owner but a custodian of a piece of history, imo… …that said, I’ve used Kirk Rich they did excellent work… …feel free to note my hypocrisy . In the case of this watch the movement was in nearly flawless condition after service and I’m a fan of the idea of coherence, so now the dial matches the other elements…

Yea, the missus'es are made of radium-infused grade 5 titanium. No messing with them!

My position on radium is well documented, so no rehash here. Today I was digging through some stuff I recently acquired. This was interesting.

Hi, a friend has just left these with me to see if I can get them going; they were his Father's and they have sentimental value. He apparently tried to get them serviced a few years ago and was told they were too old. (No idea where he tried). The first one is a Borea, which I've started disassembling. The movement has a number BF158 - searching for that brought me back to this site! An entry in the 404 Club topic for a Shelton watch. This one has the same basic movement, but in a 17 jewel version - though still with a pin pallet ?? This looks to be generally OK, just gummed up with old lubricants. It's in a well worn and tarnished gold plated brass case. The other is really strange; a Cyma, what seems to be a "Cymaflex triple date" from what @ve found on google? There are two flush pushers in the side, presumably for date setting? This one had radium lume, and it's giving the highest count of any watch I've ever had; near enough one millirad per hour at the crystal. The speckles on the dial appear to be lume particles, as the hands don't have much left in place... I'm not really sure how to safely proceed with this one, to avoid contaminating anything? It does have a separate bezel with a knife groove. It tries to run with a gentle rotation, but only 10 - 15 seconds at a go.

The trouble with AI is that it is not always very well informed. For what its worth, Indiglo is a non radioactive dial illumination system. Here is ChatGPT's take on Indiglo. .. and with a little prompting, here is what it knows about Radium dials dumped by Timex Dundee. So in other words, Timex dumped a lot of radium dials over an extended period into the Tay Estuary, the North Sea and ultimately into the Irish Sea/Celtic Sea/North Atlantic. As to how much of hazard they actually pose, that is debatable. Not much, unless you happen to be extremely unlucky, and eat a fish that ate a lume flake that Timex made. ... and finally what it knows about Timex Tritium dials. This makes perfect sense. If you really want to know what was on your watch dial however, try measuring the activity with a geiger counter. Rather counter-intuitively if it is still quite "hot" then it is probably Radium, but if it is only sightly "hot", then it may be tritium, and if it doesn't even register, then it is probably one of the many non-radioactive luminous paints. Also if it is still luminous, then it is probably not radium, as the zinc compound in radium dials is almost always spent, so they no longer light up. The radium on the other hand will be just about as radioactive as it ever was, so don't make the mistake of thinking that since it is no longer luminous, it is no longer radioactive, this is not the case.

Local auction had a box of random watchmakers tat. Nothing amazing, but I spotted a few bits in the box, so I bought it. Just had a dig through to assess what's there. First off, some watches. I ignored these. Some limit, a sekonda quartz, and a rotary quartz. I may or may not see if these work. I know nothing about them but I know if they weren't tat, they wouldn't be in the box. Next layer of items were some empty tins, a glass globe (this might actually be handy!) And a tray of glass watch crystals. It's slim chance I'll have the right size if I need them, but I play with early 20th century watches, so glass is nice rather than plastic. Next grouping is all the little boxes. The watch pins will be handy, as will the dial washers and the screws. An entire tub of setting lever screws there. There is some other bits and bobs too. Don't know how the enamel is ment to be used. No idea what clock bouchons are, or what the cylinder pivots are. Bottom of the box has this assortment of hands. I need some sub seconds hands. I bought a new selection, but I think there might be something better in here. That brings us to the small selection of tools. A broken something, adjustable winder maybe? Not sure if both bits belong together, but it's broken, and not all there whatever it is. A glass pippette maybe? An old oil pot, ill mix lume in this rather than using a teaspoon. There is a packet with a load of broaches though. I figured these would be handy. Not sure if cutting, smoothing or both. Might be handy for the seconds hands! There are also some small drill bits, and a nice surprise, a tin of taps! I need a 0.8, hopefully there will be one in there. Then some pocket watch and clock bits. The dials are nice. One is a chronograph, the other says chronometer. The movements are incomplete, but I think that's the one for the chronograph. Looks way more complicated than what im used to, even with a load of bits missing. Has depose stamped on it. And lastly, the other thing that made me tempted to buy the box. A zenith trench watch movement. I think the black dial might go with this. Not sure about the case parts though. Few bits missing on the movement but some of them might be in here somewhere. I love black dial trench watches so as soon as I saw this, along with the broaches and hands, I figured I'd buy the lot. all in all, worth the £26 I think. I expected more radium, but luckily only 1 hand and the dial.

@GPrideauxThere’s certainly never any harm in erring on the side of caution, it is a personal choice. That said, unless it is done with care and a understanding, the removal of radium lume from a dial could pose greater risks than leaving it undisturbed. Safe lume removal could be quite challenging in the case of a dial that isn’t porcelain or ceramic, if you care about preserving the appearance of the dial. Best Regards, Mark