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OK, I got sick of pussyfooting around and realised I had not even tried to wind it in by hand. Would you believe it, it went in relatively easily, in about 90 seconds, mind once you start you can't stop. The first coil after locating the hole on the rivet was the hardest and then it was just a case of winding it around and pushing it in but keeping the pressure on all the way without stopping. I learned two things. I would not be able to do this with a longer stronger spring and the gloves are essential and I had my safety glasses on as well, I have no doubt as Clockboy and Al intimated, that these springs are a tad different from watches and can do some serious damage. You could not do it with a leather glove on both hands so the plastic glove was a good call, you can "feel" when it is tight enough to push the tensioned coil into the barrel. Looks well centralised and not too much grease just a light covering. The arbour locates well in the centre coil. Time to ultrasonic the rest and put it all together. Howay the Lads, Cheers, Vic

I just thought some of you might be interested. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Swiss-Watchmaker-Tools-Bergeon-2718-1A-Automatique-Precision-Oiler-/111579617249?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276

Geo I stand corrected. However, below is the possible cause of my confusion. These are a few of a whole bunch of gauges that I have picked up over time. The three on the left are most definitely mainspring gauges with notches along the side for measuring the height and the tapered slot in the middle for thickness. The one top left also has a scale for measuring the barrel diameter (others I have use a graduated series of engraved circles for the same purpose). The three on the right I had always assumed were simply spring thickness gauges which were used along side a separate gauge that was graduated for height and barrel diameter only (I have examples of these too). I have only ever encountered pivot gauges of the variety that comprises a series of calibrated holes in a plate (jewelled in the better quality examples) into which the pivot of a staff or arbor could be placed and the correct side shake taken into account according to how far it was able to incline from the vertical. I don't have a Jacot tool (yet) so haven't come across the tapered slot as used in that application. Thinking about it though, the calibrated hole type of gauge is what you would use when selecting an appropriate jewel for a given pivot. It may however, not be an appropriate measure for selecting the correct bed to use in the Jacot tool runner for burnishing a given size of pivot, and indeed in that application the degree of required precision may well be a little more forgiving. So I would say more an instance of enlightenment rather than disagreement, and I always enjoy enlightenment :) Now all I have to work out is wether the three gauges on the right are for springs or pivots, or even both!!!

Oh, here comes a wee disagreement Marc. It's a pivot gauge out of a Jacot Tool Set. You slide the pivot along the groove until it stops at the narrowest part then read off the diameter.

From the bit I know about Seiko 5s (I've had one or two over the years), it's actually more straightforward just to replace the whole rotor section - if I remember correctly.

I found some kerosene in the garage (garden lamp oil) and it worked a treat. I did have to uncase the spring and will have to either wind it in to the barrel or think of an alternative, first thoughts attached. I may have to make the winder after all if I can not get it smaller, it may be easier in the long run or of course wind it in by hand which is still an option. In the mean time here is what I have been toying with:- It is looking good but still about 6mm too big so some way to go. I used the cling film to stop, transfer of grease onto the barrel cog. The spring has been wiped with grease. The cable ties worked great initially but it gets harder as you go on. Cheers, Vic

Just one point to chip in, from one beginner to another. I had one watch that had a back like that, and no matter what I tried, I could NOT unscrew it. Then I looked at it VERY closely - and it turned out to be a snap-back, that just happened to have the little divots that LOOKED like a screw back. I even have one of those "crab claw" back removers, as well as the Jaxa-style remover that you describe. The crab claw only grips into two opposite divots, but can exert better leverage. I stopped short of (1) scratching the watch back, and (2) adding to my already more than adequate vocabulary! It was only after I twigged that it was, in fact, a snap back, after spotting the tiniest of little "ledges" on it, that I used a Bergeon knife back opener to pry it open and it popped off as easy as pie...! Luckily, nobody was around, but I still felt like an idiot! -- Pete, Brisbane ============