Installing balance assembly in Rolex 3135

[rumjungl]

Hello, I am attempting to install the balance assembly in a 3135 but I cannot seem to get the roller jewel lined up correctly with the pallet arm.  I watched Mark's 3135 service video but couldn't see if there were any tricks to lining these up.  I'm inserting the assembly perpendicular to the movement and then turning the movement to align the balance bridge. When I test the operation the pallet jewels are not syncing with the escape wheel and the balance only turns a few times before stopping.  I've tried to install the assembly a few dozen times already but can't get it to operate correctly.

[rodabod]

Did you check the position of the pallets before fitting? I'm not familiar with this movement, but I usually remember where the impulse jewel lines up with the edge of the balance wheel, and then use this as a guide when I'm aiming for the balance fork. 

[rumjungl]

Yes, I placed the pallet arm slightly to the right of center.  Any other placement will result in the balance only moving in one direction.  Adding to the complication of the balance assembly is that this movement has 2 adjustment nuts where the balance bridge mounts to the movement.  I have tried adjusting these up and down to no avail.  

[JohnR725]

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16 hours ago, rumjungl said:

When I test the operation the pallet jewels are not syncing with the escape wheel and the balance only turns a few times before stopping.

this is a rather interesting way to ward something not quite sure I grasp what you're getting at? Is this particular balance wheel the one that came from this watch or a replacement? Then the two adjustable nuts that you played with our for adjusting the balance wheel end shake.

[clockboy]

I would not adjust the end shake adjustments. These are set at Rolex and should only be adjusted if there is too much end shake.  I don,t like some of this guys assembly method but does show how the balance should be fitted.

 

[rumjungl]

4 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

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this is a rather interesting way to ward something not quite sure I grasp what you're getting at? Is this particular balance wheel the one that came from this watch or a replacement? Then the two adjustable nuts that you played with our for adjusting the balance wheel end shake.

This is the original balance and the movement was working before the takedown and cleaning.  I replaced one of the adjustment nuts since I had to use one for another movement. 

[JohnR725]

So you changed the adjustment nut which means you've changed the end shake adjustment that as clockboy pointed out in his post was factory adjusted now you're going to have to adjust that because if you don't have enough play in the balance wheel it's not going to oscillate.

The reason I ask about the wording is your describing putting the balance wheel in getting the roller jewel where it's supposed to be which is a problem. Then possibly an entirely separate problem you're saying the watch doesn't run very long once it's balance wheel is back in which conceivably could be an entirely different problem. So if the roller jewel is where it's supposed to be engaging with the fork you can manually rotated in either direction from its at rest position. If it's on the wrong side then you rotated in one direction but the roller jewel will crash in to the fork on the other direction will not rotate it's really quite noticeable.

Other minor little things you replace the spring for the shock jewel assembly? When you disassemble the jewel assembly the cap jewel did you put it back correctly? From their website the color image which I've attached notice the jewel looks to be flat on both sides? Although on the technical drawing notice how it's flat on one side curve on the top? It's very easy if not paying attention with a curve to put it in upside down. If you do that there is no end shake and the balance wheel conceivably will not freely rotate.

So let's verify you don't or do have an end shake issue first. Remove the pallet fork so the balance wheel is not being influenced by that. Puff of air start the balance wheel oscillating does it move freely? If you have no end shake it will not move very well if there's too much and shake it's going to oscillate I'm sure that will generate some other problem. Rolex has very exacting specifications of the balance wheel end shake and they even have exacting specifications of how much each nut will change the end shake. Which is all pointless if you don't know what you're looking at or doing.

Other thing that affects balance wheel rotation is make sure the hairspring is where it's supposed to be and it's not rubbing on anything such as the balance wheel arms perhaps.

 

 

[rumjungl]

I am fairly certain I replaced the jewel correctly.  I didn't get a chance to remove the fork last night but I did install another balance assembly I have from another movement and it behaved the same as the original.  I wanted to try to eliminate the hairspring as an issue.  based on what you and Clockboy explained about the adjustment nut, I'm betting that is the culprit since when I reinstalled it I set it as a "best guess" since I don't know the Rolex procedure for these.  Will I need to get a service manual to understand the adjustment nut setting procedure?

[JohnR725]

 

if you're looking for service manual make sure you get one of the newer ones that are usually in color. Newer ones are supposed to explain more than the older ones. The older ones assume you have basic knowledge of watch repair and conceivably basic knowledge of Rolex watches and they don't always explain things.

So for instance older service manual image attached how to adjust the nuts. Notice it doesn't really cover your situation it's more of fine tuning it's supposed to be reasonably close when you're starting. Then it doesn't even tell you what the end shake is supposed to be only how much the nuts adjust for.

Then as this came up in some other question on the message board notice the very bottom of the list of things to do the reference to 2.19 fitting the guard. Make sure right now the guard is not there because if it's not exactly where it's supposed to be it's going to give you issues. So to isolate where the problem is don't have it in yet.

[clockboy]

If it is the end shake regulators that is stopping the instulation of the balance then you might have to move them to their lowest setting so you can install the balance & then adjust them back gradually checking the end shake as you go. If no oscillation is happening after installation then something else is amiss. 

[rumjungl]

Thanks to JohnR's suggestion I now have a functioning balance!  I went to remove the pallet fork and on close inspection saw that one of the jewels was nudged out of alignment!  I had a spare so I replaced it and now have a happily oscillating balance.  Thank you all for the suggestions.