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Elgin - Some newbie questions

adiorio110

By adiorio110
in Watch Repairs Help & Advice

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adiorio110 WRT Addict

adiorio110

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The watch is supposed to be pendent set and wind. But it appears the pin (see picture 1) needs to be in one position to set and the other to wind. Is there a spring missing here? (picture #1 Circle) The lever looks like it is broken on the end, if it is where can I get a replacement.  I am not sure if I pulled the stem out and pushed it back that is what would move the pin into position or I would have to move lever. I do not have the case or stem. I did make a makeshift bench key and can wind and set watch but cannot pull stem into setting position.  I move the pin manually to check functions. What stem would I need for this watch (picture 2) The watch does not work right now.  

 

This watch is a little different from the course I am following But this is a non working watch so I want to fool around with it first. 

 

Thank you

Anthony

elgin 17_LI (3).jpg

elgin 19_LI.jpg

elgin 20.jpg

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adiorio110 WRT Addict

adiorio110

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Took most of the watch apart ...Having a tough time removing the center wheel it is pretty tight to turn and even harder to remove from plate ... I suspect this was one of the reasons watch not working. I don't want to break anything is this typical? Any suggestions on how to remove? I did remove what I think is called the cannon pinion elgin 23.jpg

elgin 24.jpg

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JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

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To explain what's going on I found an image that I have and it does look like your part is a little too short. Then mine is laid out a little bit different than yours but works the same.. Then  the part that's broken  or at least looks too short  is on the wrong side of the pin  giving the pin no place to slide to.

American pocket watches like this without a permanent stem out of the case work backwards. Out of the case the watch will go into setting. Which if you're trying to run the watch this is a problem because you're driving the entire setting mechanism.. The watch companies put various ways in to let the watch go into a winding position without having a stem in place. So in your photograph I circled the part that is out which means the watch will be in winding..  Then in my photograph you can see it's in its normal place like it would be in the case and it is in setting.

So if the watch is out of the case with the little piece in it will be in setting..  If you gently insert your bench key without pushing hard rotating the hands should move.  Then if you push harder the clutch wheels will slide and you go into winding.

 

 

elgin setting.JPG

elgin setting 2.JPG

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adiorio110 WRT Addict

adiorio110

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John

thank you... I have taken this watch completely apart ... I found at least on of the reasons it was not working ...seems the main spring was not connected to the arbor hook.

 This is interesting and a lot of fun. Just hope I can get it back together LOL 

 

Regards 

Anthony

elgin 29.jpg

Edited by adiorio110
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adiorio110 WRT Addict

adiorio110

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I probably should get a new main spring ...But I figure I'll give this a shot .. I was able to bend spring so it catches hook ..tested it by using a pin vise and winding it... seems good. I'll do a better job with new parts the next go round.

I only have moebius 8000 should I use that for now?

Anthony 

elgin 30.jpg

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JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

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 I was going to recommended new mainspring but I figured since your new and you probably don't have the tools to put a new one in or even a new mainspring to put in.

personally I prefer synthetic oils and moebius 8000 is a rather light natural oil. . So for mainspring new ones come prelubricated so nothing is required  for anything else we have Moebius 8200 grease which unfortunately is not synthetic but  that's  what we use.

Then a variety of links to lubrication

http://www.moebius-lubricants.ch/en/products/oils

http://www.m-p.co.uk/muk/acrobat/hse/moebius-hs-sheets/moebius-specsbook.pdf

http://www.nawcc-index.net/Articles/BTI-The_Practical_Lubrication_of_Clocks_and_Watches.pdf

http://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/83-lubricants/

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adiorio110 WRT Addict

adiorio110

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YAAHHHOOOOOO... 

I fixed the main spring and put the watch back together, it is now a working watch... I did not clean and oil everything, I want to do more reading and get the proper supplies. I figured I'll put it together just to gain some experience.  My confidence level just rose another notch.

 

Regards 

Anthony

https://www.dropbox.com/s/he6dbf4qvnnaofr/Untitled 6.avi?dl=0

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JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

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5 hours ago, adiorio110 said:

John

I'm not sure if I should thank you or not for those links. Oil is like a project all on its own.

thanks again

Anthony

I think originally I had something written a little different for the lubrication links but then removed it. Lubrication of horology is such a bizarre subject in some discussion groups your politely told not to discuss it because they're so opinionated they can't discuss it. Typically for hobbyists and actually all of us it's expensive unfortunately it's necessary.

I have a friend who learned watch repair from his grandfather's using old-school methodology for lubrication. Which is a light oil, heavier oil and grease. Then I have a lubrication obsession which means I have considerably more lubricants and he does. So there's another part too all of this in the days when his grandfather was lubricating the watches they were expected actually to run one year before servicing. This is because they were in non-watertight cases and one year was the norm for servicing. Today if you're servicing a watch it really should go at least if you collect the money five years approximately. When somebody pays hundreds of dollars to get their watch serviced they expected at the end of the five years it still is functional.

I know on a cost basis horological lubrication is really expensive but those little tiny bottles really do last for extremely long time because you using such a tiny quantities of the oil.

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JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

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1 hour ago, adiorio110 said:

YAAHHHOOOOOO... 

I fixed the main spring and put the watch back together, it is now a working watch... I did not clean and oil everything, I want to do more reading and get the proper supplies. I figured I'll put it together just to gain some experience.  My confidence level just rose another notch.

 

Regards 

Anthony

https://www.dropbox.com/s/he6dbf4qvnnaofr/Untitled 6.avi?dl=0

Congratulations on your first repair. This is what watch repair is about diagnosing repairing and cleaning & lubrication.

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