Timex Merlin Crown will not Stay on Stem

[arvanlaar]

Hey All, 

I picked up a old Timex Merlin watch at an auction. It is this exact model: https://heritage1854.com/1975/marlin-27671 The crown on the stem does not stay on the stem when it is pulled outwards so I cannot adjust the date or time. When the crown is pushed all the way on, I can wind it to power the movement. I found a repair manual for this movement that you can see here: https://heritage1854.com/m25 It says nothing about the crown being able to be separated from the stem. Whether is was designed that way, I could not tell you. My question is, how should I repair this? I am attaching images of both the crown and where the stem comes out of the case so you can have a look. 

 

As you can see, the stem slides into the middle hole of the crown while the collar from the case (I am not sure what this is called sorry!) slips into the ringed gap around where the stem fits. The stem is not threaded (are stems ever threaded?) so I know it doesn't fit like that. 

Any suggest and advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Edited Tuesday at 03:45 PM by arvanlaar
grammar/spelling

[RichardHarris123]

Stems usually are threaded, male with female in the crown.  Did timex glue on crowns, I don't know. 

The part you are referring to is the pendant or case tube. 

[arvanlaar]

54 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Stems usually are threaded, male with female in the crown.  Did timex glue on crowns, I don't know. 

The part you are referring to is the pendant or case tube. 

Case tube... thank you for that

So I took out the stem again and I took a picture although its hard to see, and it looks like there are vertical groves over about 2ishmm of the end of the stem with .5mm of clean metal at the tip. Im wondering if there are companion grooves inside the crown and that is what is supposed to help the crown stay in place? I don't see how that would help with pressure being applied away from the case but I thought I should mention that just in case and post a pic along with it. 

[RichardHarris123]

A guess but I think the threads have stripped.  If so the only solution is a new stem.  @JerseyMo, we need your help. 

[AndyGSi]

Looks to me like the crown has snapped off the stem tip.

What's does the other end of the stem look like?

[RichardHarris123]

1 minute ago, AndyGSi said:

Looks to me like the crown has snapped off the stem tip.

What's does the other end of the stem look like?

That doesn't explain why he can wind it. 

[mbwatch]

Timex stems were not threaded - the stem and crown were shipped as one part, firmly friction fit together. The grooves you see are part of that friction fit. It is likely that if you just put some blue Loctite in the crown and press the stem into it that it will hold and work correctly. Since this is a Timex, I would not shy away from super gluing the crown to the stem either.

What might have happened here is someone tried to replace the crown but expected it to be like a normal threaded type and damaged the stem or crown or both. It is unfortunately difficult and expensive to find correct replacements for these stems and crowns because you need to know the right part for the case design (as published in the Timex parts books) and then get access to a stash of NOS parts which are pretty uncommon. If you find the right one, sellers will usually be asking upwards of $30 for it and the watches are rarely worth it unless they have sentimental value or high collector value.

Edited Tuesday at 05:38 PM by mbwatch

[AndyGSi]

38 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

That doesn't explain why he can wind it. 

They can wind it but I expect the stem isn't engaging with the keyless works to set it.

[arvanlaar]

50 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

What's does the other end of the stem look like?

Sorry I don't have a pic of the other side and this stem is ridiculously difficult to get out so I don't want to do it again  The other end is what goes into the movement itself. It has a squared end if I recall plus some small collars along the stem. 

 

42 minutes ago, mbwatch said:

Timex stems were not threaded - the stem and crown were shipped as one part, firmly friction fit together. The grooves you see are part of that friction fit. It is likely that if you just put some blue Loctite in the crown and press the stem into it that it will hold and work correctly. Since this is a Timex, I would not shy away from super gluing the crown to the stem either.

What might have happened here is someone tried to replace the crown but expected it to be like a normal threaded type and damaged the stem or crown or both. It is unfortunately difficult and expensive to find correct replacements for these stems and crowns because you need to know the right part for the case design (as published in the Timex parts books) and then get access to a stash of NOS parts which are pretty uncommon. If you find the right one, sellers will usually be asking upwards of $30 for it and the watches are rarely worth it unless they have sentimental value or high collector value.

This is wonderfully helpful thank you! So obviously the grooves still work as I can wind it so that is good. If this was your watch, and it was more of a practice piece rather than a sentimental piece, would you loctite or CA it? I know loctite is removable but i've never used it in an application where force is being applied away from the threads (groves in this case) versus stopping a nut etc from moving on a bolt or threaded rod. In my layman common sense, I would lean towards an application of CA but in the world of fine watch repair, perhaps this is the last resort rather than first choice?

One other question I just realized if I was to glue the stem back, I would image that the stem would but pushed all the back into the crown and not be floating with space left in the hole with the stem enters the crown right? I ask because the crown sits flush with the case so any miss regarding that would have consequences. 

[HectorLooi]

As @mbwatch said, Timex crowns are friction fitted. It probably came loose from age, corrosion and/or abuse. 

I would use red Loctite and leave it for 24hrs to reach full strength.

[RichardHarris123]

I've learnt something new, didn't know the stems were friction fitted.  Love this forum.

[AndyGSi]

Does the stem sit proud of the case as it needs to protrude to be fixed back in the crown, if not then it's broken.

[mbwatch]

1 minute ago, AndyGSi said:

if not then it's broken.

Or maybe even the wrong stem for the case.

19 minutes ago, arvanlaar said:

If this was your watch, and it was more of a practice piece rather than a sentimental piece, would you loctite or CA it?

I would use Loctite, and I guess as Hector suggests red would be better then blue. It's really made for this job and it gives you more time to work and clean up than CA does - so you don't end up gluing the whole assembly to your own thumb because a lot of glue is going to squeeze out and immediately dry onto the stem. Red Loctite should hold it very firmly but you can wipe it away before it becomes a problem.

[arvanlaar]

7 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

Does the stem sit proud of the case as it needs to protrude to be fixed back in the crown, if not then it's broken.

Here is a pic:

It sticks out about 1mm from the case tube (thanks again for the terminology!). Remember as well that the crown not only allows the stem to slide in, but the case tube also is fully inserted into the crown as well. I eyeballed it and it seems to me that the stem goes into the crown right up until the crown goes convex so I don't think it could go in any farter which would lead me to believe it wasn't snapped off (I hope!). 

[RichardHarris123]

I would go for the red Loctite  

[AndyGSi]

That does look promising to be repairable without having to start threading and tapping things.

[arvanlaar]

Amazing  I am very happy to hear this. I shall keep my eyes open for some red threadlock to go on sale and pick up a little tube. 

Thank you all for your assistance and wonderful first exposure to this site and community!

[JerseyMo]

I'm late to the party.  ?Merlin?     The watch shown is from the "Sprite" series of mock skin divers.  Smaller sized at 31MM across case.  These were marketed to boys, thus the smaller size. The issue is very common and is due to the crown being press fit to the stem.   You can try to use a super glue to get it to hold.  But if there is metal loss to either the crown  or stem it is best to just find an NOS replacement.   Given that  reply I'm sure you are thinking where do I find a NOS stem crown?  Well I know a guy who just may has the part.  

6 hours ago, JerseyMo said:

I'm late to the party.  ?Merlin?     The watch shown is from the "Sprite" series of mock skin divers.  Smaller sized at 31MM across case.  These were marketed to boys, thus the smaller size. The issue is very common and is due to the crown being press fit to the stem.   You can try to use a super glue to get it to hold.  But if there is metal loss to either the crown  or stem it is best to just find an NOS replacement.   Given that  reply I'm sure you are thinking where do I find a NOS stem crown?  Well I know a guy who just may has the part.  

ok, I have to retract my comment on calling it a "Sprite" and I'll blame it on the jet lag of just having come back from the west coast.    it is a "Marlin" Sport Diver 34mm across cushion case. missing the bezel ring.  that is common since they were made of plastic.  

 

Edited 19 hours ago by JerseyMo

[arvanlaar]

20 hours ago, JerseyMo said:

I'm late to the party.  ?Merlin?     The watch shown is from the "Sprite" series of mock skin divers.  Smaller sized at 31MM across case.  These were marketed to boys, thus the smaller size. The issue is very common and is due to the crown being press fit to the stem.   You can try to use a super glue to get it to hold.  But if there is metal loss to either the crown  or stem it is best to just find an NOS replacement.   Given that  reply I'm sure you are thinking where do I find a NOS stem crown?  Well I know a guy who just may has the part.  

ok, I have to retract my comment on calling it a "Sprite" and I'll blame it on the jet lag of just having come back from the west coast.    it is a "Marlin" Sport Diver 34mm across cushion case. missing the bezel ring.  that is common since they were made of plastic.  

 

Thanks for the info JM! After looking at the stem, I don't think there is metal loss so I might just be in luck  In case I do need a new Stem crown, who is your mystical source if I can ask?

[JerseyMo]

1 hour ago, arvanlaar said:

Thanks for the info JM! After looking at the stem, I don't think there is metal loss so I might just be in luck  In case I do need a new Stem crown, who is your mystical source if I can ask?

me

[arvanlaar]

37 minutes ago, JerseyMo said:

me

Well then... if I need a Timex parts guy, I know who to call  Thanks!