A lathe with indexing that won't break the bank?

[coreymsnow]

Hi folks,

I'm doing some homework on getting a watchmaker's lathe, and it's clear I have a lot to learn. But I know one goal: I want to be able to fabricate wheels, which would require an indexing capability.

I know how to use large lathes- like, giant metal lathes- but my experience is a few decades old now (but you never forget the smell of the metal cutting oil).

So I'm looking to learn anew, and have a goal to get to a point where I can fabricate some basic watch parts. I also have no specific timeframe and want to do this right, so I'll be patient and learn what I need to before spending the money.

I know I'm not going to get anything for a pittance, but I'm also not really able to put together the scratch for a $5-$10k lathe. What's out there for a hobbyist that can either handle some fabrication out of the box or can be relatively easily made to do so?

Thanks!

 

[caseback]

This thread might be interesting for you:

 

[nevenbekriev]

As the question is about indexing, see this video.

The quality is bad, but You can see how my setup for wheel cutting works and how the indexing is done. The index disk is just printed on paper.

Otherwise, as it is seen, I use minilathe for the purpose of watchmaking and I find it more convinient than regular watchmakers lathe

Edited yesterday at 05:17 AM by nevenbekriev

[Dell]

My suggestion would be as you are in USA to take a look at Sherline because they are in USA & still in business & you can not only buy the lathe but also a milling attachment & a manual or computer controlled indexer either separately or as a complete kit.

I don’t have Sherline or have anything to do with Sherline but a lot of people doing watch & or clocks use them to do some very nice work , have a look at Jerry Kieffer on NAWCC.

https://www.google.com/search?q=mb.nawcc.org+Jerry+Kieffer&rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB1138GB1138&oq=mb.nawcc.org+Jerry+Kieffer&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRigAdIBCTI4NjI2ajBqN6gCE7ACAeIDBBgBIF_xBf8MHBWZkt3l&hl=en-GB&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
Dell

[JohnR725]

13 hours ago, coreymsnow said:

watchmaker's lathe, and it's clear I have a lot to learn. But I know one goal: I want to be able to fabricate wheels, which would require an indexing capability.

Often times the belief is when you're making small parts you Need a small lathe like a watchmaker's lathe to make small parts. But for gear cutting its oftentimes better to have something bigger. Then realistically you might end up with several things not just one machine for everything.

13 hours ago, coreymsnow said:

can be relatively easily made to do so

Depends upon your machining skills and the equipment you have. This is where having a slightly bigger equipment allows you to make all kinds of things where if you have a tiny equipment you can not really make bigger stuff it's very awkward. Then indexing is all kinds of ways to do indexing a very popular way is with the stepping motor a worm gear like at the link below

https://www.ebay.com/itm/191714031261

What's interesting with something like this is you can micro step at end up with basically a infinite quantity of indexing. But you still have to build some things.

For instance here's an interesting YouTube channel and an interesting video. His watchmaker's lathe is a little bigger than what I'm typically used to for watchmakers lathe. As a rather interesting cross slide and notice he makes just about everything. Then he gets the indexing something purchased surplus but it's basically just a worm gear stepping motor his has way more hands-on control but it does the exact same thing as the one up above. Then if you read the description of the video is in a shop of creative people to build all kinds of nifty things like the stepper motor controller etc.

 

 

 

[LittleWatchShop]

I own too many WW lathes, as well as two sherline lathes and a sherline mill with a cnc indexing rotary table. The majority of my experience is using the WW lathes to make staffs, screws, and stems.

Recently, I have been experimenting making a pinion on the mill using the indexing table. It works. So, if you want to cut wheels, get the Sherline mill and indexing table...imho

[coreymsnow]

Thank you all for the tips and insights. I'm looking carefully at the Sherline lathes with a milling attachment. I need to figure out exactly what I'd need to get in terms of the base lathe and attachments to be able to fabricate basic parts and learn how to fabricate some of the less basic ones- like a cannon pinion.

Thank you again.

[LittleWatchShop]

I will post some pictures later

[nevenbekriev]

3 hours ago, coreymsnow said:

...how to fabricate some of the less basic ones- like a cannon pinion...

Yes, this is not a basic part.

Here are some pictures of making one

 

[LittleWatchShop]

56 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

Yes, this is not a basic part.

Here are some pictures of making one

 

Indeed. I would not attempt one.

Here is my messy Sherline setup

[coreymsnow]

2 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Indeed. I would not attempt one.

Here is my messy Sherline setup

 

NIce!

Unfortunately, I may have a movement or two for which a cannon pinion simply does not exist. I figure it's a challenge- put the movements on the shelf, work on other watches for a while, but also learn how to fabricate parts, and once I'm good enough at it, revisit the watch.

The worst possible result is failure, and that doesn't bug me much.

[LittleWatchShop]

19 minutes ago, coreymsnow said:

NIce!

Unfortunately, I may have a movement or two for which a cannon pinion simply does not exist. I figure it's a challenge- put the movements on the shelf, work on other watches for a while, but also learn how to fabricate parts, and once I'm good enough at it, revisit the watch.

The worst possible result is failure, and that doesn't bug me much.

I appreciate your unbridled enthusiasm. We're you born in Texas?

I set an ebay watch on impossible parts...eventually they show up.

[coreymsnow]

3 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I appreciate your unbridled enthusiasm. We're you born in Texas?

I set an ebay watch on impossible parts...eventually they show up.

Heh. Well, also I just want to be able to do it, for no other reason than it's interesting. Same reason I restore antique tube radios and ancient computers- like, from the 1970s. 

Sometimes, the parts just aren't there and you have to know how to make them. Learning how is a challenge and can take months or years, but it's honestly the best part! You can't beat that sense of triumph when you do something that's really hard to learn to do and do it well.

 

[LittleWatchShop]

You shoulda been born in Texas.

Tough to make a vacuum tube though. You can substitute with a MOSFET eq ckt I guess.

I was playing around making a pinion the other day. More to it than meets the eye.

[coreymsnow]

15 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

You shoulda been born in Texas.

Tough to make a vacuum tube though. You can substitute with a MOSFET eq ckt I guess.

I was playing around making a pinion the other day. More to it than meets the eye.

Hah! Well, California will have to do. Lived in TX for a brief period back in the early 70s, though, so maybe that counts.

Funny you should mention making vacuum tubes- I've actually tinkered with that! It's REALLY tough to do, and I've never made one more complicated than a simple diode that barely worked, but I have played around at it. But there's just no infrastructure for vacuum tube fabrication. I can get a lathe and learn how to use it to make complex parts, and while it might take a while to learn- and money to get the equipment, of course- it is possible to do more or less "off the shelf". But vacuum tubes, not so much. There are a few folks out there doing some crazy cool work with bespoke tubes, but they have setups that are far beyond what I can manage in my environment and it's mostly stuff they built by hand.

I also have been playing with making piezoelectric Rochelle Salt crystals to replace ancient vacuum tube turntable needles- nobody's made those commercially for probably 60 years.

I'm a sucker for learning how to do weird things no one does any more so I can make things no one uses work again.

(I think this is drifting off the topic of lathes, lol).